Episode 20 - The Dream of Entrepreneurship

Some of us, not many, have a specific goal in mind and already know what we want to do to accomplish it. For example, I knew I wanted to do science since I was young. This, in turn, helped me set up my entire journey to get to a career I enjoy.  In this season's last interview, we had the opportunity to talk to Dr. Scott Kachlany about his career journey and his amazing accomplishments including having his own Biotech Company, Actinobac Biomed.  Like me, he had his journey thought out.  Of course, even knowing what you want to do from the start, doesn't mean it won't come with its unique problems.  Tune in to our last interview episode to find out how Scott overcame!

Chapters

• 1:10 Intro
• 9:39 All in on Science!
• 17:14 The Lab Experience
• 20:54 Appreciating the Experience
• 21:39 Path to a PhD
• 25:01 Get Schooled
• 29:39 Figuring it Out
• 34:57 Research Pitch
• 43:53 Consults are Important
• 47:42 I Wish I Knew...
• 1:02:52 Hopes and Dreams
• 1:04:55 Best and Worse Moments
• 1:09:15 Essentials for Career Success

Transcript

00:00.00
drnobodypodcast
Welcome everybody thanks for coming back on the show listening in and enjoying our guests and my episodes today I have a really fun guest. Dr Scott Keshlanni and apparently I might have said that already.

00:15.50
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, it's Dr. Kachlani Dr Nobodyy but but that's okay, that's okay, you you got my first name correct and that's the important part. So and thanks, that's okay, you don't need to.

00:22.92
drnobodypodcast
I knew I was gonna mess it up. But ah I can't I can't fix it I can't fix the way I speak I yeah all right? Thanks well moving forward is gonna be Scott so I feel safer now. Um, but I appreciate Scott being on and today we're gonna.

00:34.42
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, yes.

00:41.10
drnobodypodcast
Talk about his life and some cool things that he's done like starting his own company and we're going to focus on entrepreneurialship but before we do let's ah, let's get into it and learn a little more about Scott guy you want to tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:53.70
Scott Kachlany
Sure and thank you? Dr Nobody for having me on this is exciting especially as ah, someone who's sort of a little older than you and not not been. Ah, you know invited into many podcasts to date so this will be fun and I do appreciate it. so so yeah so I was born in Miami Florida actually and grew up in South Florida for ladale area and never saw snow actually until I went to college and of course where did I go to college Cornell University Athaca One of the colder places in the country and love the snow. Um, and I remember the first time it snowed it was ah it was Halloween actually and it was about 7 or eight inches of snow up there and I I had shorts on a t-shirt and I ran around my dorm yelling and screaming because I was so excited to see this white stuff. Powder. Falling from the sky which I had never seen before everybody thought I was crazy but but I still love it. I'm still up here in New Jersey as you know Ah then I from cornell I went to Columbia to get my ph d I studied microbiology at Cornell. Loved it. There. Studied microbiology at Columbia as well got my ph d in microbiology after that I started my faculty position at Rutgers University school of dental medicine that was back in 2003 and now I'm there as a professor of oral biology where I teach microbiology to dental students. And graduate students and I have a research laboratory as well and the discoveries that I made in my research laboratory about fifteen years ago led to the company that I founded called Itinoback Biomed and we can talk more about that. But basically I realized. Early on that when you make a discovery in an academic laboratory. It's it's great for academic research and basic research which I love I love working with bacteria doing experiments. But if you really want to get that technology and that invention that discovery into the clinic into the hands of patients. To help these patients whether it's a therapy or a device. Whatever it might be. You need to go into industry and you need to either license it to industry have have a big pharma company take it and develop it and get it into the clinic or I learned the hard way you have to do it yourself. And that's that's why I actually started the company not because I started out thinking I'm going to start my own company I'm go start my my own company not at all. It was really after I tried pitching the idea or or licensing the idea selling the idea to the pharma companies.

03:45.14
Scott Kachlany
That I realized after rejections that I realized okay if nobody else is going to do this I'm going to do myself because I believe in it so much and that's that's basically how it happened in a you know, very large nutshell.

03:58.53
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's good I I do pitching in my company and I can't imagine how that felt to be pitching to Pharma companies and being rejected. It probably doesn't feel good for.

04:03.21
Scott Kachlany
Um. Yeah, no, and you know I was so excited at first because initially we had we had you know, really great data. We had data even in monkeys we had tested this you know compound that we were developing called lucathera. We're testing it in monkeys and in animals and you know in academic research as you know you don't usually test things in in monkeys you know you start with mice and rats and you know maybe you include? Um, once in a while a monkey you know, maybe 1 in one hundred labs. Yeah, for some reason if you work on. Something that's specific for you know humans or monkeys but but most researchers will never test anything in monkeys and I thought well we have great data. You know monkeys are similar to humans etc and I thought we're going to license this to merk or Pfizer or a big company for $1000000000 and I'll be on my yacht in the mediterranean somewhere in a year or 2 and you know i. Don't have a jet ski yet so far away from that. but um but I realized when you go to these pharma companies and and they turn you down. Um, you know you keep thinking what else do I need what else do I need and and I learned that the pharma companies want human data. They want you to have data. Ah, for your drug or your diagnostic or device or whatever might be they want it tested on humans or in humans because they don't want to assume the risk they'd rather um interact with you. Ah, you know acquire you or license the technology or partner with you much later in the game. When you have derisked it and that means testing it in humans and showing at least some safety data. Otherwise they have to basically start from the beginning and farm companies. Don't want to do that. So the goal of the company that I founded called liketino back biomed became. Ah, to obtain basically human data with our drug and that's that's been our you know our focus that's been our our direction throughout this development phase.

06:08.80
drnobodypodcast
So before we go deeper into that whole process I Just want to take a step back in what you were saying before and it's just so that the listeners can understand that you're just a human just like us. You know we're not.

06:14.40
Scott Kachlany
Um, sure.

06:21.82
Scott Kachlany
Um, not yet right? Why charge you? yeah ah.

06:24.94
drnobodypodcast
Not, You're not famous yet. So that's why I got you on this podcast I'm sure if you were famous. You would have said no um, yeah, that's true I don't have a yacht either I'm very I don't think I'll ever will have one. But yeah, maybe I can buy it from you or take it from you when you're done with it. Yeah, okay, um, so.

06:38.55
Scott Kachlany
You borrow it right.

06:44.82
drnobodypodcast
In your story. You talk about snow with is that like a significance for you like is that really like that's like a game changer like emotional for you.

06:46.19
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah I was yeah I mean I you know, growing growing up in Florida um, and I guess I had taken vacations but I never really went anywhere. On trips I'd been to New York with my parents a few times but we never really went I guess deep in the winter enough where it where it had snowed and I I wanted a change in scenery. You know as anyone knows who's been to Florida. It's it's hot and humid all the time but especially in the summer and I don't think I ever realized how how how hot and humid it actually was how difficult it really was because you're just surrounded by it and when I went to ithaca I went to cornell it sort of opened my eyes to a whole new world. You know there's change of seasons that leaves change colors the snow I I still think the snow is beautiful. It's of course. The butt to have to drive in it and shovel it now that now don't have a house and whatnot. But especially when you're in college, you just have to walk around. They still you know I saw these beautiful memories of walking to class and just looking at my surroundings. You know it didn't matter that it took me 20 minutes or 30 minutes to get to class. It was always different and and yeah, that was just an amazing experience. For me and and I learned how to I you know I took um pe classes cornell was great because they they had these sort of extreme or crazy pe classes. You can take not just you know running or working out but but I took skiing actually as ah as a p class we went skiing every Friday night up to the mountains and. Took you know we took a bus there and it was just great. You come back Friday night late at night you get pizza and and hot chocolate you drink I took hockey and ice skating class I learned how to ice skate I did all these winter sports that I had never done and I loved it. I bought skis I bought ice skates and so it was you know Ah, a significant. Event in my life and not just the snow but the whole sort of experience. You know at Cornell for the environment as well. Not just the education. It really is you know after being to so many different campuses on in this country I still think and of course I'm biased but I still think it's the most beautiful campus. You know I've ever been to and and I think people who've gone there will tell you that even if they haven't gone there for college but they visited to tell you the same thing and that that had a very significant impact on me and I still use that campus as sort of the standard to compare other places parks and you know places I go to. Colleges or whatnot after that.

09:14.78
drnobodypodcast
When you decided to go to college. Did you know you wanted to do you know microbiology or did that come through. You know as time progressed and.

09:21.48
Scott Kachlany
Um I did actually I knew I was one of the rare species who I mean I am I am human but I might you know I'm sort of a subtype I think I'm a rare species that actually knew.

09:29.20
drnobodypodcast
Um.

09:37.65
Scott Kachlany
That I wanted to study bacteria not just microbiology I knew I wanted to study bacteria and the reason was that you know I always was I always loved science I always built things I always experimented played with you know the tools in my my dad you know my dad's garage. Um, so I knew I was probably gonna do something science or engineering and. When I was in high school. My biology teacher brought in some pond water and he had a microscope set up and we were looking at the pond water under the microscope and I just remember being amazed and fascinated at what I was seeing you know all these different cells were moving around and some were large some are small some were rod shaped some were spherical and. Some are spirals and I literally could sit there and look at it. You know, look through the microscope for hours you know and and it's one of these things where you don't realize that time is passing you know because you're just you're enjoying it so much and you you move the you move the lens a little bit and and you get a new so you know new ah, new view. And whole new sort of world that you're open up to and for my I don't remember maybe my fourteenth or fifteenth birthday I asked my grandma to buy me a microscope for my birthday. You know like a good microscope. Not ah, not a toys or us microscope but an actual scientific microscope. You know.

10:47.99
drnobodypodcast
Hey hey hey I was my microscope.

10:52.47
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, and I started out with that. But you know I said you know what I had a ah fisher science catalog right? Fisher scientific catalog and yeah and and because I think I probably stole it from school for my biology teacher. He had it on the desk you know and that's that's where they ordered things from right? So and it was a you know a binocular microscope um with the with the oil immersion lens.

10:56.64
drnobodypodcast
Wow.

11:11.55
Scott Kachlany
You know so it was a real. It was know step up. It was a real academic microscope and and I even this is funny but ah, you know at the time you could order bacteria to a house Now you can't order Bacteria You know it's all biohazard and it's it's you know, special licenses and.

11:12.22
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.

11:31.15
Scott Kachlany
And authorizations and and whatnot. But at the time you could actually order bacteria to your house so there was a catalog that I found and my dad I had my dad order it. He had a company machine shop. He's a machinist engineer and I had him order it. You know I think to his company maybe or to the house and I remember and and. And it was a tube of bacteria was e coli and we kept it in the refrigerator. Um, you know next to the eggs and whatever else is in the tube. Ah, and I actually use that broth. You know that liquid with the bacteria in it to look at the cells every night you know at the glass slides and I loved it. I even. Built a little incubator in my bedroom out of tiles and so what I did was I knew you know it had to heat up to °c right? Body temperature and I wired a light a dimmable light on top of the tiles I cut out. Um I cut ah chipped away the tiles to make like a hole on top and I use a dimmable light that I wired on top so you could dim it right? You can make it darker brighter and I and I I marked it where it was the right you know brightness to to result in °c. So I sort of played around with it and you know if it was too bright. It was.

12:45.75
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.

12:46.72
Scott Kachlany
Too warm and I drop it and I I had that my room I assembled a box basically out of tile imagine that you know one square foot tiles right? that are assembled into a cube and somehow I had a door that opened I think I probably was duct tape to open you know to have it open and I had this light on top and I actually grew bacteria in. Plates and petri dishes I remember borrowing petri dishes from my my school my high school and you know pouring media and stuff and so I was growing bacteria in my room you know and looking at cells I mean I I didn't get sick I don't think but you know it was it was exciting I loved it. I loved experimenting and. So when when I went to cornell one of the first things I did when I got to campus was I sought out um research laboratory to work in and I went to the microbiology department and I I got their brochure. You know it's before the internet really or just as the internet was starting but nobody nobody was really using. It is 191993 I started college. Um. And I got the brochure and the the department research and the faculty and I I found a faculty member Dr Bill Yorsi who was actually the chairman at the time had pictures of bacterial cells and he was probably one of the only people in the department who was using a microscope and and I thought. This is where I want to be. You know he's using a microscope I want to use a microscope and I went right to him and I used through his lab I I learned how to use the electro microscope laser scanning microscopes all different kinds of microscopy techniques and.

14:04.92
drnobodypodcast
Um.

14:22.71
Scott Kachlany
And I was there for 4 years actually I was in his lab for all 4 years I stayed every summer at Cornell to work in the lab. So I I feel like I almost got a ph d you know who went through my undergrad I was I was there I was there for longer than many of the graduate students put it that way. So I really became an integral part of the lab. so yeah so I knew throughout.

14:29.90
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

14:42.49
Scott Kachlany
Wanted to study Bacteria I don't know what I would specifically do or details. You know what? what microorganism I would study or what mechanism or or system I'd study per se but I knew I wanted to be able to study understand manipulate these you know, beautiful little creatures called bacteria.

15:01.10
drnobodypodcast
It's now I understand why we got along all those years because I yeah you're I didn't know you were so crazy. But I am just as crazy I I you definitely beat me 100% like I knew from the beginning and.

15:02.59
Scott Kachlany
Um, and I know I crazy. Yeah.

15:15.84
drnobodypodcast
Listeners will know from my other episodes when I talk about my life and my career as I started young too but all the way in Junior high and then high school's ap teacher. But I definitely didn't go as crazy as you did, but it's pretty. It makes me feel better knowing that somebody else was as crazy and nerdy and weird.

15:18.55
Scott Kachlany
Um.

15:29.66
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah, ah yeah.

15:35.47
drnobodypodcast
As I was um, you know, maybe like you know, obviously our ages when you're told your your your college is yeah I didn't say anything I was like yeah I won't say anything but.

15:39.18
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, 10 years old right? You you got you got to date you can work backwards and figure out the age but well you took the safer route. You didn't build any dangerous electrical ah equipment and not sure even I'm not sure in.

15:52.34
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.

15:56.49
Scott Kachlany
I Don't know even how I did it back then or I wouldn't even do it now I'm afraid of like electrical you know because I'm like I'm gonna get electric cueed I but I didn't hear it back that was I was wiring things you know, using the black tape to to split wires and if I had known what I was doing I probably would not have done it I was just you know happy. Go lucky. But.

15:59.55
drnobodypodcast
Ah, yeah, yeah, so.

16:13.47
Scott Kachlany
But it was it was fun I love doing it I Love building I Still I Love building things around the house and and yeah.

16:18.20
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's cool I Definitely ah I don't have any callouses in my hand. Definitely not a handy person nor do I touch electricity too I couldn't even figure out to put on the ring for my doorbell.

16:22.82
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah, ah touch it? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:31.23
drnobodypodcast
And my uncle who's an electrician do and he did it with his hands I'm like oh oh my gosh aren't you supposed to be wearing gloves. Yeah like that he's just touch. He's like it's like like 2 volts or something really low like it just it's like a tingle and I was really embarrassed about it. But it's fine is fine. Um, your Cornell experience. The the man's that you I hear.

16:42.44
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah I get it.

16:50.96
drnobodypodcast
But name um, but his lab Do you feel like he mentored you and and really helped you prepare for graduate school and future I mean it seems like he did.

16:51.71
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah.

16:58.24
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, yeah for sure so William Grsi or Dr Bill Yoursey Bill we called him? Um, yeah for sure he he was. He was a more hands off professor and you know as you know there are some faculty who are in there all the time and looking over your shoulder and then there are people who. You know you meet with once a week and you tell them what happened and and your your ideas and and they sort of give you an interpretation and then they let you go back and attack the problem again and that's how he was and I and I like that because I like problem solving and that's how you learn and so he was there. Ah, enough of the time or he was you know there as a mentor or advising you just the right amount of time so that you could still develop those skills of independent thinking and and independent studying and so I you know I like the idea of being able to come up with my own hypotheses. Come up with my own solutions here's what happened here's what I think went wrong and then he would sort of um you know, suggest other ideas or or think yeah, you're on the right path or why don't you try this? You know so it was ah there was a right amount of sort of mentoring. But I think even. Just as important was not just him there being the mentor and and teaching me but the lab experience I mean that was just unbelievable. You know it was it was. It's priceless to be in a lab because not only are you learning practical. You know the practical side of biology and whatever you're studying but you're developing these. These relationships these friendships. Um and interactions with other people in the lab. The technicians the graduate students to post dots and you're learning about life as a scientist and as a researcher which is what I knew I wanted to go into and so it was it was a great experience academically and socially, especially because I stayed there as I mentioned I stayed there every summer so in the summers you know we would. We'd go to you know to the to the lake and hang out I've been to graduate students' weddings. You know in in the woods in ithaa. You know we gone to the waterfalls we went um, went wine tasting in you know, Cayuga Lake the the vineyards there and I don't drink so I was the driver you know. Ah, with all the the whole lab. You know we went to the the lab manager's house who has horses you know and and it was just that was that's as much of a memory of my Cornell experience as classes were you know in my dorm and and things like that. So I think it was. It's just invaluable if you're in research, you're in biology or chemistry or you know in the sciences if you can get into a laboratory and get that experience and not just for the sake of getting it on your resume. You know for six months or a year and then leaving going to something else but actually delving into that experience and and I knew that's what I I wanted you know I didn't want to just have.

19:48.64
Scott Kachlany
But some people want four labs you know so they have you know 4 different professors they work. No, it's more about quality than quantity I'd rather see somebody my own lab I'd rather hire a student who was who was in lab for three or four years with the same person who has a really strong letter than someone who jumped around and was in 3 different labs so it was it was. Yeah, an amazing experience and I couldn't imagine being in in another lab or working with other people and and I really you know loved and and appreciate the time that that lab and the members of that lab spent with me. So yeah.

20:21.61
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that sounds pretty freaking awesome that sounds like a very unique experience and definitely set you up for not just in terms of like your scientific career. But just you're just having fun and your mental health and that sounds awesome.

20:26.97
Scott Kachlany
It was. It was the.

20:35.29
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, absolutely as I I got to appreciate the the environment there because you know I think I you know it's extremely cold in the winter and during classes you can't get out and do much but in the summertime it's just beautiful. Um, and you know I had a garden actually in ah in a community Garden plot. Rode my bike you know there every day and it was just a wonderful time to be in kind of I think it's a wonderful time to be in college and I think anybody who's in college should probably experience that because all too often students kids run home and they run by college and they run home and you know it's like enjoy it appreciate appreciate that Environment. So.

21:04.68
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.

21:10.40
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's really good advice I Definitely support that view. Um, so when after you finished your college career. You did you go straight into doing your Ph D You knew you wanted to do a Ph d.

21:11.95
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, if I agree. Yeah yeah.

21:25.60
Scott Kachlany
Right? So I again was one of the unique people probably who went right to graduate school right to get my ph d some people do take time off either. They need to take more classes or they're not sure of what they want to do. They want to you know, backpack in Europe for a year or or they don't know if they want to do research or science or medicine or you know, but I knew I wanted to go into research and and get my ph d and interviewed at a bunch of different places and settled on Columbia I had spoken to. So during the graduate school interviews. You know you speak to faculty at different schools and one of the most important things about graduate school unlike maybe undergraduates and is not so much the name of the school of course that's important and and your reputation of school I should say but more is whom you whom you you will be working with right.

22:00.74
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.

22:15.63
Scott Kachlany
Um, is that a lab you want to work in doesn't matter where they're at is that a lab you know research topic you're really interested in is that a professor you could see yourself working with for the next four years five years six years whatever it might be and so so that was. Something I really focused on was talking to people at each school whose research I was very interested in. You know, focusing on certain bacteria and what the bacteria studies entailed and I talked to somebody at columbia professor David Fraersky Dr. David Fergersky who is in the microbiologist department there and. He was probably the one of the few faculty who was just as enthusiastic as I was and I remember sitting in his office and you know it was like oh my god look at these bacteria. Oh my god look like you know we're going like going back and forth until we were like forth like okay we have to calm down. You know it was that sort of ah and you could probably imagine me like that.

23:02.19
drnobodypodcast
Ah, yeah.

23:07.93
Scott Kachlany
And you know I was showing him Electron Micrographs of Bacteria and he was saying well we want to look at you know here here are Electron Micrographs We took about bacterium and we want to study this and I said I know how we can do that you know and it's almost like you just fall into that. Um, it falls into your lap. You know that that that made for you type situation. And that's what it sort of was and I was very excited about the project I was studying a bacterium that we still Study. It's bacterium known as aggregated Bater Actinomyceumcomitans which is a bacterium We called Aa for short, it's a bacterium found in the mouth.

23:35.16
drnobodypodcast
Nice.

23:41.70
Scott Kachlany
And I was really excited about what kind of work we could do with it. There was very little known about it at the time and it was my it was going to be my role my job as a graduate student to figure out how to manipulate it genetically no one had done that yet and so that's basically how it started and it led to a lot of lot of discoveries as you can imagine when you have something that. Not well studied led to a lot of discoveries that has resulted in. Um, you know my academic research now and formation of the company Itino back Biomemet. Actually.

24:11.10
drnobodypodcast
Yeah I can definitely say I will never be able to say that name of the bacteria Even when I was at Rockers I could never yeah so you you brought up one point and it's come up several times in other interviews and it's about where you go for school.

24:15.55
Scott Kachlany
Um, it's okay when you're there? Yeah yeah.

24:26.36
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah, good question. Yeah.

24:29.10
drnobodypodcast
And what you do with it because when people hear at Cornell in Columbia those are ivy league top tier schools and yes you are definitely smart, but necessarily people may not be able to get into those schools. So what? what advice would you.

24:35.56
Scott Kachlany
Right? so.

24:41.24
Scott Kachlany
Um.

24:44.81
drnobodypodcast
Tell people that maybe not necessarily can get into those type of schools and.

24:47.32
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, so I think you know yes, it's important to go to the best school possible I always tell tell people you know, go to the best possible school you can because it will make a difference I think you know undergrad people will say undergrad is important to get into grad school right? or or. Get into professional school if you want to go to medical school go to a good undergrad do well? Um, but you know I think the most important part is to do well in your undergrad career. Do well do the the best you can in college and I'm on the admissions committee for the graduate school at at Rutgers. So I you know I see students from all different places right? and we don't. Put so much emphasis on the school they went to as long as it's a you know a good school right? I mean any four-year accredited university in this country and the us you know it's gonna be a pretty good school any state school any any private school. Um, and. What we look for is how they did in that in that school right? How they how they did in classes. There. What classes did what classes did they take and how did they do and did they do research and what was that quality of research and. You know, quite frankly, we'd rather take a student who may have gone to ah you know a state school. Let's say who got all a's and worked in lab for three or four years and has a great recommendation letter from that professor saying how amazing they are how how you know reliable they were how intelligent they are. Then a student who may have gone to an ivy league school and got b's and c's you know and who may not have done much or the last maybe the last year they were there last semester they decided they do research and they worked in a lab for for three or four months and then they decide to go to grad school. You know that you have to be that. Person who's going to want to do research and go to grad school. It's not enough to just sort of go through the motions and you can see that you can see the the level of interest and enthusiasm and so what I would say is go to the best possible school you can do the best you can and take the initiative and. Seek out opportunities. You know the opportunities are not going to come to you remember there's thousands of students probably on your campus. Nobody's gonna come around and cater to you and offer you things I mean I went to that professor myself when I got to cornell nobody told me what to do you know I was probably a little crazy for doing all this because I was a freshman and people. People's eyebrows raised a little bit when they're like well we've never had a freshman in this class or we never had a freshman do this but but nobody told me no, that's the beauty of that was the great part about Cornell and go my corne of course but but that was the great part was nobody told me no, it was just like well I guess we'll figure it out you know and then it was up to me to figure it out or or help them figure it out and and it's because I took the initiative.

27:26.70
Scott Kachlany
I wanted to do all these things and so I I sort of um I you know created new roads that may not have been there before and that's what it takes and I don't think anything will stop you you know in college you're interested in somebody's research email them. Go knock on their door. You know, maybe it'll be a no maybe it's talk to. 10 faculty before you find one who's going to say yes, but don't give up and don't don't be Don't let the rejection. Um, keep you from moving on and you know there's a saying in academia that says you know if you're in academia be prepared for a life of rejection because that that is. What it is. You know you write a grant you get rejected you write a paper gets you know, rejected right away. Um anything you apply for awards and and you know things like that promotions. You're rejected before you're before you succeed then that's just that's how it is from the from the beginning. In fact, so. Starting from you know college applications but don't let that deter you at all because you need to fail before you are going to succeed so sudden. That's my you know so you don't need to go to an ivy league school. You don't need to go to top school I think you know you can go to a good school do well then apply to the ivy league school and I guarantee you.

28:22.30
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.

28:40.94
Scott Kachlany
You know the harvards of Princeton Cornell Yale they'll be happy with a straight a student who came from ah you know a good school. Um, that has a student who has a great recommendation. You know from a from a professor who's who's ah, highly respected in that field.

28:55.43
drnobodypodcast
Now. Well you I could definitely cross off my one of my questions and you went into it which is what you look for and students that apply but what I want to maybe follow up with that is um, you know it seems like a lot of the points that you're.

29:02.16
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah.

29:13.66
drnobodypodcast
Saying is about being proactive that you know some of these students need to be proactive with what they're doing on campus and and what not but is that necessarily like in order to be practical. You need to know what you're gonna be doing So what about the students that don't know what they want to be doing yet.

29:14.90
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah.

29:28.31
Scott Kachlany
Right? Good point. Well I think they need to explore and find what they're what they want to do um one of the criticisms I guess I have about the education system in this country. Not that I know what it is in other countries but I can you know tell you one of the one of the. The the problems I have or 1 thing that sort of gets me upset or disturbs me is that there's this idea of like don't worry, you can figure it out later and yes you can figure it out later but I see too many students who are figuring it out after they finish college and in my opinion and in. My expectation as it always was is that college is supposed to allow you to figure it out and you should be able to take courses that you're interested in and explore and okay maybe it's not gonna be what you find in freshman year or sophomore year but you should start focusing and sometimes you know we get students who. Um, coming to grad school who really haven't had much biology or um, you know they just they seem to not know what they were doing and still don't know what they were doing and it's sort of like well what were you doing for 4 years and I I know there are a lot of liberal arts colleges and you know take all these courses and whatnot. But at some point you have to focus even some of the grads you know, grad schools are less focused than I think they should be and you know let's face it in life. You're going to focus on something you're going to not that you're going to lose interest in other things. But. You know you're going to study something you're going to focus on something going to work on something and um and and I think I think you need to I don't think it's okay and I know there's a lot of criticism. There will be criticism against what I say but I don't think it's okay to be just completely up in the air about everything when you go to college I think you need to develop. And interest even before that and I think it's it's there's this idea of well it's okay and you know you're allowed to just not know what you're doing and I don't know maybe I'm a little bit little bit. Um, you know hard nosed. You know in this way or old fashioned. But I think that. That you should be exploring even sooner and you should be you know focused so you can figure out what you need to do to get to that goal otherwise as you say you don't know what the goal is so how do you know? what? you want to do but be that as it may I think you then need to sort of go around campus and. Explore those opportunities join clubs talk to faculty if you you know if you don't maybe you want to do finance. Maybe you want to do business. You know, talk to different people and um, you know I had ah had a friend in college when I got there as a freshman he said he's very smart kid and he said um he said he doesn't know what he's in a major in yet.

32:15.17
Scott Kachlany
But he's so he's taking biology chemistry and physics and whatever he does best in is what he's gonna major in you know, that's that's not that's not what you should do and I also hear a lot of students say well you know I'm not Goingnna do as well in that class. So I'm not Goingnna drop it or I'm not gonna do it. You know my feeling is.

32:20.11
drnobodypodcast
Ah, you know.

32:32.52
Scott Kachlany
You want to take that class. Are you interested is that something you want to do then take it that shouldn't deter you from doing it I mean I I did better in my organic chemistry class than my microbiology classes. Even though I wasn't a chemistry major at all, you know I beat out all the premeds and I got one of the top scores in the class of 600 students because I loved it so much I really loved the problem solving or of organic chemistry I loved microbiology too. But it was just a different subject and I didn't do as well in microbiology as I didn't um in some other subjects I didn't say hey I'm not getting you know a's in all my micro classes. Let me let me switch. So I think you have to set your goal. And if you really love it and that's what you want to do make it work. You know don't give up just because you do on an exam or something that's not that's not life. You need to go after it and you know don't ah don't change your career because of that change the way you study or change the way you get to it rather and that's again I think. Students nowadays are just not as focused as they should be this you know or or not as clear about a future path and and society accepts it and says it's okay to not know and I disagree I think you need to know. So yeah.

33:41.68
drnobodypodcast
Yeah I'm with you 100% and totally support everything you say when I when I do council students and I talk to them you know, even my my brother goes to the same school I went to and I talk to students like that I give them the same advice. You do you know? I think there all.

33:47.75
Scott Kachlany
Yeah.

33:53.45
Scott Kachlany
Um, well.

34:00.16
drnobodypodcast
Ultimately wasting their time not doing anything like they're just going through the motions to finish school but then what like what's the ultimate goal. What's your end goal. You need to give yourself purpose in order to give yourself drive and that drive will help you do more things and be excited and motivated and you know you get.

34:00.29
Scott Kachlany
Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:17.19
drnobodypodcast
I Feel like maybe there's a study out there that shows that students who knew what they were doing going into so college versus kids that don't do better I don't know that's like a good hypothesis. But anyway I totally support your views. Um, so moving along now let's ah if you can give us like your.

34:21.86
Scott Kachlany
Um, right? Yeah yeah, um.

34:36.53
drnobodypodcast
Because I know I know your project and I know how complicated it could get. But if you now we're gonna go into your Ph D What you did and then go into the actual company. Um, can you give us the elevator pitch of your research.

34:41.25
Scott Kachlany
Um, right? So yeah, perfect. So I I study a bacterium thats in the mouth as I mentioned aa and this bacterium basically produces a protein so a molecule that it that it produces. Um, that is able to kill certain white blood cells human white blood cells animal white blood cells dog white blood cells mouse white blood cells and you might wonder why would this bacterium produce this molecule that can kill white blood cells. Well imagine a bacterium in the mouth or in our body has to remain there and what. Of course, do we have to try and get rid of bacteria is an immune system right? So we have these white blood cells that are coming out to attack the bacterium and try and kill it. So it's this battle. It's this constant battle and bacteria and you know all organisms in our body if they want to stay there. Need to have mechanisms of defense they need to have ways of evading that host immune response. So while we can't really ask the bacterium to answer for us. But we believe as scientists we believe after studying the molecule and the bacterium that the protein which is scientifically called Leukotoxin and and through the. Company. We trademarked at Lucothera so I may use both words, but this protein called lucotoxin that the bacterium makes is allowing the bacterium to evade that host immune response by killing off some of the white blood cells right? So it's a perfect you know, perfect mechanism now we learn in the lab. Through my academic laboratory we learn that this protein lucotoxin is able to kill certain types of white blood cells. It doesn't just kill everything otherwise we'd be dead right in ah and a pathogen or a bacterium in the body. never wants to kill the host it never wants to kill us it wants to be transmitted from one host to another so it wants to. You know, make us um, just a little bit different or a little bit sick. Maybe not even sick. But but you know manipulate us a little bit so it can grow inside of us and then it wants to get transfer to the next person right? it it wants to do that. You know in life and that's how it it expands and and evolves so that's the bacterial. You know we learned how to use this protein to kill these certain white blood cells and the certain white blood cells that the protein kills are known as activated white blood cells and it turns out that these types of white blood cells these subtypes of white blood cells that are activated. Are also involved in diseases such as leukemia and lymphoma as well as all of the autoimmune and inflammatory diseases. So autoimmune diseases like psoriasis and allergic asthma and rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory bowel diseases like crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis.

37:29.80
Scott Kachlany
Um, all these diseases are basically diseases of the immune system right? Even though they're much different diseases. You know psoriasis affects the skin rheumatoid arthritis affects the joints gi inflammatory inflammatory bowel disease affects the the gi tract. What links all of them together is that it's the immune system that's involved and the white blood cells in those cases are hyper activated. They're going a little bit crazy and they're actually attacking the body. So while the white blood cells are supposed to help us in these cases. They're hurting us and this is the same thing for leukemia and lymphoma in leukemia Lymphoma which are. Cancers of course malignancies of white blood cells these white blood cells are growing out of control. That's what cancer is right uncontrolled growth and these white blood cells are growing and causing these cancers. They're crowding out the normal white blood cells and this is what causes leukemia and lymphoma. Well it turns out that these are great targets these. These disease white blood cells are great targets for this protein called lucotoxin because it's the same types of cell that lucotoxin wants to kill. Um, so I thought fifteen years ago or so when we were you know, starting to to make these discoveries I thought well let me put 2 and 2 together. You know this sounds like a great Great therapeutic agent right? You have this this protein here. That's very active against killing these white blood cells and it's very specific for these white blood cells. So what's the goal of any drug it's specificity right? Target just the disease you know cells or molecules. Um. And toxicity or action get rid of those cells. What's you know goal the goal of chemotherapy in cancer treatment is to kill those cancer cells the problem with traditional chemotherapy is that it it kills other cells as well of the body and so you have these horrible side effects it affects liver cells kidney cells our hair falls out. And that's because it's affecting other systems of the body not just to cancer ourselves so we had this molecule which is a natural molecule. You know we don't modify it. We don't engineer it. It's made by the bacterium and we had this natural molecule that I thought we could use for potential therapy. And I remember thinking. Okay, the first thing I have to do is test this this molecule this drug in animals right? That's the first thing you know you want to do is to see if it works so we set up an experiment where we administered leukemia cells human leukemia cells that we can culture in lab a lot of people do this. And we injected these human leukemia cells into mice and these mice will develop these tumors. Okay or this cancer artificial but it it still represents you know the human cells human cancer cells that are dividing in these in these mice and then we we took some of the mice and we treated them with a buffer.

40:17.28
Scott Kachlany
So a negative control just a placebo and then the other group of mice we treated with the drug with Luca Lucotoxin and we asked what happens and amazingly even after only a few treatments a few doses of the drug of lucotoxin these tumors went away. And basically these tumors never returned during the whole duration of the study and the mice lived full normal healthy mouse lives which is about a year and a half and we we kept these animals going in the animal you know facility and and they were happy and healthy and never develop cancer again. So I thought wow this is amazing. You know before I started the experiment I thought well if it works great. We're going to pursue this and let's develop this as a potential therapy if it doesn't work and these mice still die from the cancer. then then I'll go back to just streaking bacteria on a plate and and growing bacteria in the lab which I love to do. But you know that's what I'll do and when I realized that it worked so well I thought wow we can't ignore this you know we have to pursue pursue this and as I mentioned I'm a microbiologist by training I I don't usually work with you know animals and.

41:08.45
drnobodypodcast
I.

41:25.46
Scott Kachlany
I don't do oncology or immunology. But what I've learned and one of the sort of lessons is to be able to learn and adapt as you need to and you know I wasn't resistant to it. A lot of people would have said well I'm not ah, not ah I'm not that kind of scientist or I don't study this or I don't work with animals. So I'm not gonna. You know I'm just gonna ignore it I'm gonna turn the other way and keep doing what I'm doing in contrast I'm I'm you know I'm completely opposite I enjoy the challenge I want to learn that new field and and delve into it and and push it. You know to a point where I I want to learn as much as much as I can. And when I when I know my limits I bring in other people. You know you have consultants and collaborators and we we have a lot of consultants and collaborators in the field. So that's that's basically how it started from there. We carried out other studies in other types of for other types of diseases like psoriasis and allergic asthma. Dry eye disease inflammatory bowel disease leukemia and Lymphoma and the the goal of the company is to first test the drug in patients with leukemia and lymphoma and then use that human data. Then develop other trials for testing in patients with autoimmune and inflammatory diseases because strategically getting human data for the Leukemian Lymphoma patient will be the the most efficient way to to move you know move forward there

42:56.75
drnobodypodcast
Well I gotta tell you that is that was a very long elevator ride I don't know where maybe went up and then back down but you know no, that was very interesting. So thank you for sharing that? Um, that's it's pretty remarkable to see something from.

43:04.91
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah.

43:15.25
Scott Kachlany
Um, right? Yeah yeah.

43:16.27
drnobodypodcast
Ah, lab come out from there and then go now into the process of you know the pharmaceuticals and stuff like that So because it's a different world just like to your point like there's these different disciplines that got involved but this is now a regulatory you know body that you're dealing with.

43:29.70
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, yeah, um.

43:35.70
drnobodypodcast
Did you get support or advice or mentorship like how how have how have you worked around like dealing with the Fda or any regulatory bodies to start this process.

43:39.88
Scott Kachlany
Um, right? Yeah and that's a good question so you know in in research and in academia you're never taught about drug development or how to start a company and I think a lot of companies fail because the the founder. Ah, scientist isn't willing to learn or or adapt as I mentioned or or you know, um pivot as you will and I I love doing that and I love learning and I love going to the business meetings and talking to investors and even though it's not always signed scientific and so so to answer your question i. I learned a lot along the way you know I learned the hard way but I threw myself into it. You know I threw myself into these meetings and conferences. And yes, you you learn a lot and you can do a lot. You know after you've you've gained this information but at some point you always have to have collaborators collaborators and consultants and. Especially for what you mentioned which is a very good point when dealing with regulatory agencies like the Fda which is what we do you know deal with all the time until we brought in a lot of consultants so you know for regulatory issues. There are rules and guidelines and there's things that you just there's no way I would know there's books and and you know. Um, packets that I wouldn't even know where to look for these and so there are consultants who work with the Fda who know the requirements and they've been working with us throughout and they will they will advise us. You know they'll be consultants who have expertise in toxicology and pharmacology. There are expert ah expert consultants who. Will advise you on the manufacturing aspects of your drug how to make it and what what guidelines you need. There are some that advise you on the clinical you know, clinical trial protocol. You know how to design a trial around your drug and the patients you want to go into and there's no way 1 person or 2 people or 3 people could be experts in all of this. So. We have consultants along the way as we need and we you know we talk to them depending on what we're working on. There was a time when we were talking to them maybe 3 or 4 times a week when we were working on our application to the Fda and and they're essential and so that's. That's where it comes in. They're telling you okay here are the studies you should be doing. Let's see what the data looks like this is you know let's repeat this and it's it's a dynamic situation. It's not a 1 time call you figure out what you need to do and let's go back and do it. It's you know like I say it's it's weekly daily some companies if you have a lot of funding you can hire. These people but you'd be hiring a lot of people because initially you don't know necessarily who you need and for how long sometimes you need a consultant for three months and then you won't talk to them to them again right? So it doesn't make sense for sense for a small company to hire people for that short period of time. So I think the key to succeeding in a company is to.

46:31.56
Scott Kachlany
Keep your overhead costs down and identify the best possible consultants who know how to get things done and I think we're lucky that we had some really you know, really great consultants and and so yeah, so there's a lot of interacting with the Fda and you need people who know how to interact with the Fda and the guidelines and. Kind of letters to write to them. You just there's no way I would you know anyone can know all of that. So so consultants are the key secret secret weapon. Yeah yeah.

46:54.59
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that makes that makes complete sense. Yeah, um so I want you to dig deep on these next 2 questions that I'm going to ask you about the company um in video games. There's these things called like I wish I knew.

47:03.93
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, right now.

47:11.53
Scott Kachlany
Okay.

47:13.41
drnobodypodcast
Right? And um, basically the videos are you know there's a brand new game comes out and it's like you know these content creators make a wish I knew before I started the game. So like oh I should have gotten left instead of right? Oh I should have built this and do this So I want you to think about.

47:25.11
Scott Kachlany
Um, I said.

47:30.72
drnobodypodcast
When you start your company. What are things you wish you knew before starting the company.

47:33.87
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, very good question. So the the most important thing I think that I I wish I knew and when I talk to you know people who want to start companies I tell them the same thing you need to know how to make your your your product. Whatever that is you know in our. All that's a therapeutic It's a drug but whatever it is whether it's a a software app or a a device or a diagnostic test. Whatever it is. You need to know how to manufacture it under the regulatory guidelines I don't mean just make it. In your garage or make it in the lab in your academic lab but you need to learn how you need to know how to produce it at a scale that is relevant for what you will be selling it at or testing it at um and the reason is that whenever you. Produce something you manufacture something and of course I'll ah use you know drug therapy or therapeutic you know molecules as an example because that's what what we do, but whenever you make this therapeutic molecule in a laboratory in an academic laboratory as we were doing early on. It's at a small scale. You know you're making in a little. Hundred mill flasks right? Low low vials little tubes and that's fine at that scale because you're testing it in small mice or in you know, certain experiments on your bench top. But when you want to test this in larger animals or ultimately humans you need to make large amounts of it and it has to be made. Under certain guidelines. It has to be made at a facility that is inspected and approved by the Fda right? You can't just make it in your kitchen or your garage and and these requirements are very strict and and they they're very costly and what I learned was that. Galling up and moving your process even though we had a great process of making this therapeutic agent in our laboratory at rutckers moving that process into a big facility. You know a real company that is just making drugs just producing molecules is not so simple. It's not as simple as multiplying it by a hundred right? and just multiply everything all the volumes by a hundred and there you go you have your new process. No, you're you're going to new machinery you're going. You're using new equipment you're using new materials new plastics new liquids everything is different and. I think we take it for granted that we say oh I could I was able to make you know I always be able to make this you know in my lab. Whatever will just scale up and it'll be fine. That's not the case at all. Um it takes a long time I'd say the majority of our funding that we had and having the company was an end time.

50:20.80
Scott Kachlany
Was used for manufacturing our drug not experiments not testing it but actually just making it just getting the raw material It's like a chef you know, spending all their money on on just making the food and and you know and then preparing it and and then not having it eaten after you know and I think it's. You know you take it for granted but and we take it for granted but I think it's ah it's a really big point that a lot of entrepreneurs miss out on and they miscalculate because they think they can do it in six months with this amount of money and loan behold three years later and 5 times the amount you know more money that they need. Um. To actually finish the project. So I think the number 1 thing I would make sure of and the reason especially in drug development like to nobody is that you know you can't do any of the subsequent experiments. You can't do any of the downstream studies in animals or in toxicology studies or anything unless you have the raw material. Unless you have that good material so it doesn't make sense to jump the gun and and start some other studies with other other you know, material other stuff other compounds if you don't have that starting material yourself. So First thing you need to do make it make the drug make the product and then everything will fall into place and. Because it's going to take the longest amount of time and the the highest cost so that's my number 1 suggestion for anybody who is you know, starting a company and that's what I wish I knew because I would have started on day one with the first dollar we got as investment not that we screwed around with the money by any means we did some good studies. But I think I would have waited to do some of the other experiments. Before we had that high quality you know Fda produced drug to do anything else because that's what took you know the longest amount of time.

52:04.80
drnobodypodcast
Well my follow up one would be. You know what are what's a crucial thing that you need to know going into this and I feel like that's still ah the wish and the crucial seems like it's the same thing in this case unless you could think of something else.

52:11.40
Scott Kachlany
Um, you know. Yeah, um, well I think the other thing I wish I knew was how long it will take um, nobody nobody nobody can nobody can predict that and I'm not sure I would which which I still don't have so I'm still. It's it's.

52:28.10
drnobodypodcast
Get your Jets to get your Jet Ski or to it's a getting a produce. Yeah.

52:37.10
Scott Kachlany
It's taking a very long time actually yes yeah to to succeed and you know there are certain I think the other thing that I wish I knew was which which studies to do or which experiments to do to start off you know I think when you start the company. Start a company you you sort of um your trajectory is sort of at a slow incline. You know the the slope is very is very low. It's almost a flat line and then at some point you realize okay, here's what I have to do you know? and here's where somebody many advises you or or you realize what you need to do first or next and then it is the slope. Increases significantly right? and then you sort of climb very quickly and if I could jump to that point where it starts to increase exponentially I would have saved several several years right? So but at the same time I think you and I think anybody will tell you this who's gone through it. You almost have to go through it to know that you know I mean nobody. Nobody knows um how to do it right? The first time otherwise you would have right? So you have to learn from your experience but but yeah I think the other the other thing is a piece of advice is I think a lot of companies fail because they get investment money. They're excited. They buy. Buy an office. They buy a building they hire 10 people and and then they're out of money and you know you have to you have to figure out what are you going to do with all of these so in our case, we have never had more than one full-time employee which may sound silly. But the reason is that employees are very costly, not that we don't want employees but but they're a commitment. And they're very costly and with a drug company such as ours any of the work that we do in my academic laboratory for example or in another laboratory doesn't really count. You know the the work that we do ourselves doesn't really count towards the Fda because it has to be carried out as I mentioned in a Fda approved laboratory so you almost have to contract it out as you know so. If we hire a ph d level scientist right? A postdoc or whatever a ph d level scientist and they are doing experiments in our off-site laboratory it's not going to really do much for us because it's not carried out under what's called glp conditions or good laboratory practice. You know requirement. So a lot of that work is sort of can be wasted and we'd rather take that money and pay a company to do the work under their conditions which will which will end up in the application that goes to the Fda or hire a consultant to help us. You know do the work and and you pay them much much lower rate. So. Again, that's I think how companies fail and they go through money very quickly. We've been able to um burn through cash much more slowly by keeping their overhead low and selecting you know where where the money is spent because like I say if if you're hiring somebody and they're not doing work that's going to actually directly.

55:29.20
Scott Kachlany
Affect your end result which is getting into humans a clinical trial then why do it? It sounds cool. It's it's exciting right? We all want to set up a company and we have an office and we have 10 people working for us, you know, but if it's not valuable if it's not going to get you closer to the clinic. Don't do it and it's hard making that decision sometimes but.

55:45.46
drnobodypodcast
You know, well Scott I I I appreciate the very kind way of telling me that you didn't accept my application in front of everybody. So thank you for that. Totally rejected live on our podcast. So thank you very much.

55:56.28
Scott Kachlany
Um, ah be rejected. But if we get that next funding if we didnt get the next funding level. You're you know? will we reconsider your application.

56:05.19
drnobodypodcast
Jake. Okay, great I appreciate that? Um, so just a couple more questions here before we wrap up. Um, you've given a lot of great advice for people thinking about starting a company or or making a move are there any resources.

56:22.93
Scott Kachlany
Um, if.

56:27.62
drnobodypodcast
That you can let people know about starting a company like you know if you read or watched or learned anything or this is all ad hoc as things came up and you learned it on the spot like you know what? what was your learning style there.

56:30.57
Scott Kachlany
Are are. Yeah, well so I have 2 2 parts that answer 1 is ah 2 part 2 answers to that question. Um one is I read a lot of but I read only biographies actually so I read a lot and I only I only read biographies because I love learning about people and you know usually it's it's.

56:50.20
drnobodypodcast
Wow wow.

56:58.35
Scott Kachlany
Celebrities or yeah famous families or you know entrepreneurs. Yeah, everything it ranges from singers to you know whatever actors. Um because I like to learn about what made them successful and what characteristics did they have you know what was their character and and what I learned is. They all failed miserably early on you know whether they were actors or singers celebrities. Whatever they were entrepreneurs you know and they often came from very poor families like you know it's rare to read about somebody who is wealthy and they became wealthy and they stayed well you know I mean it these these? um. These people are hardworking people and that's what made them successful and um and so I love taking what I learned from there and applying it to my own life and and maybe indirectly maybe I don't even know I'm doing it but it just allows me to sort of learn about. What makes a successful person and it's always hard work and drive and desire to do it. Yes, there's talent there and you know, but but they didn't start out like that you know they still had to practice they still they still had to learn and so I so so I think that's 1 thing that's helped I wouldn't say there's any one book. You know that that is that would would do it? Um, but I've read a lot of biographies and and I I think um I just I love. It's real life. You know I don't like fiction because it's all made up and it and I like the idea of of and I know that's great I mean I know I'll get a lot of you know. Hate email right now. But but I like the idea that you know that that real life happened and in your when I read these sometimes I'm amazed I'm like wow and they're still alive or that happened you know I mean because it it actually happened like fiction. It's easy to write anything that's crazy. You know because it it didn't happen but these people actually. Live through these events. So so I'm I'm amazed every time I read a ah new biography. But the other resource um is exactly the question you just asked is what I asked myself is what you know where can I go to find out how to do this and um. I couldn't really find anything out there for how a professor you know starts a company now. Obviously there's lots of different fields and I'm sure there are books about different areas but I have you know over the years of doing this I've had a lot of other professors come to me and ask me that question. Or people who know that I do this they say oh you know I know this person who's done this and they refer someone to me and so I've had a lot of conversations with other mainly faculty who are interested in starting a company like where do I start? What do I do do I patent first do I talk to an investor first. Do I go to a company first and like I said you're not taught this There's is's just out there.

59:50.40
Scott Kachlany
Um, and so I decided to write a book. Um, actually about this and so in the last year or so I've put this all together in a very practical sense of almost here's what you do you know? Um, or here's at least what to think about I mean everybody's company's gonna be different Everybodys ideas is different but here are the main.

59:51.30
drnobodypodcast
Nice. Oh.

01:00:09.83
Scott Kachlany
Topics and things such as manufacturing you know, make sure you can make your your product before you go much further and once you do that then here's what you do and make sure you have a patent you know. So so so the practical things that nobody ever tells you and I have a sort of final version. It's not published or anything but i. Sort of just completed it a few months ago so I don't have a publisher yet if somebody is out there and wants to look at it. Let me know, but but but that's you know, but that's that's what I wish I had was something like that someone gave me a guide and I wrote it also because every time somebody asked me about it instead of.

01:00:35.23
drnobodypodcast
Absolutely so.

01:00:47.10
Scott Kachlany
Talking to them for a few hours. Not that I mind talking to people but I can just sort of just hand them the book you know and say here read this and then let's talk. You'll be You'll be farther along basically right I can't I can't tell you everything that's in here because I took a long time to write the book. But so that's yeah, so that's my advice I'm not sure as any 1 book. You know I think the most important property or character you can have when starting a company is enthusiasm being excited about it because that will keep you going that. Will you know you will ignore or be oblivious to the amount of work that's required if you are excited about it. Won't even occur to you that you just spent 5 hours doing something you know, looking something up or trying to figure out how to do something if it's something you really love and you want to move it forward right? The time will just fly the work will just fly if it's not if it's not something you love an hour will seem like 10 hours right? and and you know so.

01:01:30.32
drnobodypodcast
So yeah.

01:01:42.37
Scott Kachlany
So that's the most important thing I could say is being excited and enthusiastic about it and you can see that when somebody's excited and and investors will be able to see that too and that's what they want to invest in they want to invest in the person. Not just a company and and trust me they don't want to invest in somebody who's sort of just sitting up there and just doing it as their job. They want to see somebody who's passionate.

01:01:53.61
drnobodypodcast
You.

01:02:01.69
Scott Kachlany
And enthusiastic about it. So.

01:02:02.54
drnobodypodcast
The funny thing during that talk part that you just had I wrote down if you were gonna write a book and then as I'm finishing writing down that note you say that you're gonna write a book. So I'm I'm glad to hear that.

01:02:11.97
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, ah I I read mind. Yeah, ah yes I do.

01:02:21.50
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that was a little creepy. Um, and it's ah it's another skill set I guess you have um so wrapping up I have 3 final questions and 1 is just to you've given us really cool stories and information and motivated us I just want to ask you a personal question is.

01:02:36.55
Scott Kachlany
Um, yeah, right, right? right? Yeah, great question. So.

01:02:41.27
drnobodypodcast
You know with your company you know where do you see it going like um, what are your hopes with this company at the end of the day. What what do you plan on doing with the drug and you know things like that.

01:02:55.78
Scott Kachlany
Um, in April of 2021. So recently just a few months ago we got approval from the Fda I'm very excited to say we received full approval from the Fda to test our drug called leucothera in humans so in patients with relapsed and refractory leukemia or Lymphoma. So these are patients who have failed other therapies. Um, they unfortunately do not have very long to long, um, a long time to live. Um, they're you know at the end stage usually and so this will be their last option. You know their last therapeutic option and so my goal is to to get this drug into humans as fast as possible. To help patients who are suffering from these deadly and debilitating diseases and ultimately show through these clinical trials that the drug is beneficial to patients that's sort of the near term goal right? Just you know, get that human data. And convince people that this is worth pursuing the long-term goal is to either develop it ourselves. You know if we can keep going through phase two clinical trial phase three clinical trial or partner with another company. A big pharma company which is often what happens and have them work with us. To develop the drug and get this into the patients who need it and this would be not just leukemia and lymphoma but hopefully patients with autoimmune diseases and inflammatory and and allergic reaction. You know, allergic diseases as well. So that's my ultimate goal is to get this into all the patients who. I think it will be effective for and that means all of these white blood cell diseases. Basically so no, yeah, thank you I was big. Step. Yeah, thank you? Yeah, thank you.

01:04:34.30
drnobodypodcast
Nice and congratulations on that and I hope it keeps moving along sounds very promising. Yeah, it's huge step um, all right? So wrapping it up here I always ask the same 2 questions to my guests. Um, and the first one is is.

01:04:46.70
Scott Kachlany
Um, sure. Um, I Think the best best is easy. The best I have to say I have two kids So I think them being born as I think anybody with kids will will probably say um as I get older and.

01:04:52.48
drnobodypodcast
What are the best and worst moments in your life or your career that you can share with us.

01:05:09.40
drnobodypodcast
Yep.

01:05:10.68
Scott Kachlany
Grown to teenagers I might you know I sometimes regret saying that but you know but just getting there. They were ah they're amazing and that's you know them being born is is obviously the part. The best thing that's ever happened, but the other non you know, biological. Um, event that I can remember in my life is actually getting into Cornell. Um, partly because I sound silly but I didn't really think I would get in. You know I was a great student I did very well in high school I had a lot of activities I'm not a great test taker I never have been and my sats were not that great. Um, and I remember I so remember the moment that I got in I you know I remember I was in in school and this is of course before electronic you know in informing informing informing students by electronic email or anything so we had to wait for a letter and I knew that the letter was coming you know today or tomorrow one of these days. And I had just finished math class I believe in in high school and I went to a pay phone again before cell phones I went to a pay phone and I called my mom because I knew she was home and I wanted to see if she got the letter so I called her and she answers the phone. She said so. Let me get the mailbox and she went in bellbox to goes. Oh there's 2 letters here from Cornell, there's 2 envelopes and and she goes which one do I mean open first and I said I don't know I'm not there I open whatever how am I supposed to know pick one pick one and open it and she opened it and I still remember the words I still have the letter. Um.

01:06:35.79
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:43.24
Scott Kachlany
And it said the first line was dear scott welcome to the Cornell community and I just remember being so excited jumping up and down and I probably left the phone you know on the dial dial tone there I pretty hung up on my mom actually and I was just so excited screaming that I got in and of course. Wasn't the greatest thing to do because I think there were people who you know were finding out from other schools that they didn't get in I was the jerk who who was you know, overly excited and by pissing other people off, but but that was one of the greatest moments because because I you know my parents didn't really go to college and you know nobody my.

01:07:02.94
drnobodypodcast
Ah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:18.41
Scott Kachlany
Family went to high league schools I it it wasn't in our family. You know I mean so being able to go to this amazing school was just and I'd been there I visited it and it was just breathtaking I knew I wanted to be there and 1 of those rare instances where you really want something so badly and you get it. You know sometimes a lot of times you compromise you well I didn't get it but it'll be okay I'll go here instead and I would've been fine but like.

01:07:30.53
drnobodypodcast
Um, yeah.

01:07:37.31
Scott Kachlany
It's It's one of these dreams you know where you're like you really want something and oh my God It actually happened So that's ah ah, an event. Um I will never forget. Actually it's a very clear in my mind. Um worst um, probably actually my mom passing away a few want to ago. Yeah.

01:07:55.31
drnobodypodcast
Um, sorry man.

01:07:57.80
Scott Kachlany
So I mean it's yeah, it's I mean it's it's I didn't really even realize that in that same story. She's in both places you know that she represents by the best part of my life and then also the the worst part of you know her being gone but um I think you know anybody who has lost. Ah, parent especially will probably understand that you know so but yeah, but I'm glad she and she loved Cornell. She visited me with my dad. My parents visited me a lot in ithaga they were better friends with some of my friends than I was actually they were all of my friends knew them in the dining hall so they loved it up there? um. And and so yeah, so I think that's that's probably the best best and the worst. Yeah, yeah, yeah of course, but.

01:08:38.22
drnobodypodcast
Thank you for sharing that I appreciate that? Um, and as you know I too lost my mom you know recently and stuff like that. So I could definitely you know like I understand and you know I appreciate you sharing that. So ah, so.

01:08:45.29
Scott Kachlany
Yeah, no, you don't yeah you understand? Yeah yeah, no thank you? yeah.

01:08:57.14
drnobodypodcast
The last question that I like to ask um is really to help people motivate people and give them kind of like a path at the end of this interview just like what to start thinking about what to motivate them what what are 5 essential things you think they need to succeed in their life.

01:09:06.93
Scott Kachlany
Um.

01:09:14.76
Scott Kachlany
I Think one is fine and I sort of alluded to this earlier find the passion that you love you know, be enthusiastic about it. Um, a lot of people might say well. But I can't make money doing that or it's not a career. Well I think if you really love it. You could probably make it a career and I think a lot of people will tell you that too. You know it may not be a traditional career.

01:09:15.60
drnobodypodcast
Or their career. So.

01:09:34.16
Scott Kachlany
Or a 9 to 5 job. But um, you have you have to you have to do something you really love. Otherwise you're can have a miserable time you know going through life. But I think the other things that you you need I think to stay happier to be to be successful is is a hobby or hobbies. You know that you can fall back on and that you enjoy doing in addition to work and for some people it's one and the same for me it is they overlap in some ways some ways right? I mean which is a good thing but I also have you know I garden. Um I I read a lot as I mentioned I cook I love cooking I love building things.

01:09:58.99
drnobodypodcast
Here.

01:10:10.45
Scott Kachlany
So So there are things that are non-academic I Guess I Run I work out. You know? So So those those things are are essential in your life to be Happy. So You have something else to to go to to come home to to to feel proud of right I enjoy working out because afterwards and and then running I. I Feel like I can eat a lot more you know and I feel I won't feel bad about It. You know? So um, if if for no other reason and I feel like I think I'm getting healthier too right? but but you know things like that you need otherwise you you don't feel satisfied with your life If you're content I think you also need to surround yourself with people who are successful.

01:10:28.31
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:46.78
Scott Kachlany
And if you can smarter than you because they will help you and um and they will teach you and you know you don't want to be the person who's always feels like I'm teaching these people or or I'm not learning from this not that I mean I love teaching obviously but you want you want someone to teach you at at all levels wherever you are. In your career in your in your life. You want somebody to to tell you what you're doing wrong and what you know what you need to do to to get the next step that you may not be aware of and I think if you surround yourself with the best people then you will succeed in whatever you're doing. And think you also have to surround yourself with people who make you laugh I think that's that's crucial who who you can make laugh. You know you you can you can have that same effect in the other person you you can make them laugh because you know life is too serious too many times and I think you need to be able to just. Go out with people and and speak and surround yourself with people who who are funny you know and who make you look at things in a different way on a day-to-day basis. So I think those are maybe that's on 5 but but those are probably some yeah those are probably some the essential.

01:11:56.74
drnobodypodcast
You don't have to do 5

01:12:02.13
Scott Kachlany
If you can if you can hit those, you're gonna be successful. You'll be fine. Don't don't worry the other two you'll figure out. But yeah, so yeah, yeah.

01:12:08.77
drnobodypodcast
That's fair, um, all right sidebar. Um, so at the end here I'm going to ask you if they if the listeners could I'll thank you, You can you know if you want to say some last words you can and then I'm going to ask if the listeners can reach out to you.

01:12:16.55
Scott Kachlany
Um, yep, sure sure.

01:12:25.63
drnobodypodcast
Um I don't know if you have if you want them to Linkedin or email. You don't have to say them because I'll put them on your profile on the website. Um, but you know so Linkedin and email's fine or just Linkedin like how do you? What do you want me to say.

01:12:31.94
Scott Kachlany
You'll put on. Yeah yeah, yeah, you can yeah email is is Linkedin I do have a Linkedin I don't know if you have the connect you you can use it I don't usually check because I I have it because other people. Ask me for it's like having a business card but never you know, using it. Um, if they actually want to contact me I'd prefer email because I'll actually get it. You know I'm saying Linkedin. It might get lost because I get million of spam messages. You know from so many people so I would I would just say you know email. He's happy to receive email. Um.

01:12:52.45
drnobodypodcast
Okay. Yeah.

01:13:05.56
drnobodypodcast
Okay, all right cool all right? So um, yeah, I'll say that part and then I'll just say my part and then it'll be all over all right here. We go all right Scott that was that was such a great interview I really I mean you.

01:13:06.18
Scott Kachlany
That's probably the best way. So yeah, if that's okay.

01:13:24.33
drnobodypodcast
Really loaded up my notepad here with a lot of notes. Um I have to tell you? yeah seriously I got to say that if not if people have not detected this. This episode is clearly sponsored by Cornell. Ah, if that's not clear.

01:13:25.96
Scott Kachlany
Ah, could do some reading a.

01:13:37.65
Scott Kachlany
Ah, make donations I need a building in my name so make sure you mention me. So yeah, thank you? Yeah you know? Yeah yeah, thank you? yeah.

01:13:44.26
drnobodypodcast
For the yeah, just joking I don't want to get in trouble. But yeah, seriously, but you know, um, it is I've I definitely know people I've gotten there and it is a nice school. But yeah, thank you so Much. Um I Just want to make sure though If. Listeners can reach out to you through email if that's okay, correct.

01:14:01.10
Scott Kachlany
Sure yeah, you can provide that to them and I think I gave you 2 email addresses. Dr nobody either 1 is fine. So I'd appreciate that. Thank you? Yeah yeah.

01:14:08.24
drnobodypodcast
All right? cool. Well thank you so much and thank you so much listeners I really hope you gained plenty of insights today I mean there's ah for me personally there's a ton. Um. But this is the beginning of becoming a someone but specifically to someone you always wanted to be I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did please do give me a like review and subscribe to the podcast. You can also visit the website. The http://doctornoypodcast.com to learn more about my guests. Um. Got himself to listen to his episode again share the episode in much more Thanks again for listening to the Dr Nobody Podcast where we turn nobodies to somebodies talk to you all very soon.