Dr. Nobody™ Podcast
Dr. Nobody™ Podcast
Episode 10 - The Dreaded Career Imposter Syndrome
The hardest thing about imposter syndrome is dealing with how vulnerable it leaves you. It's not always easy to get over it even with years of experience. In this week's episode, we speak to Caroline, a strong immigrant woman, who navigated and subsequently dominated the advertising world (still is). She provides the listener's words of advice not just from her, but from her mother whose wisdom should not be overlooked. This episode is packed with insights, so have a pen ready and be mentally prepared to have a shift in your career.
00:19.82
drnobodypodcast
Right? Well thank you for joining us today. Um, caroline cuno is with us today on the Dr. nobody podcast and we're gonna have an interesting discussion today about imposter syndrome. But before we do I want her to read her own bio. Let's talk about it. Okay.
00:33.46
Caroline Cunha
Hi Dr. Nobody. It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much I'm very excited to talk to you and your listeners. Um, so I am caroline quiyan and I was born in sa paulo brazil um about ten thousand miles from very glowing new york um, and I was actually born and raised in a very humble neighborhood but where my parents had limited resource. They really had the same amount of dream. Intellectual curiosity 7 is and drive and the dreams was. For me and my brother. Um, my mom really installed in the 2 of us this real desire of being intellectually curious but more important to being dependent and she knew that the cornerstone to really to get to that is to be educated. Um. And obviously the way for her to do that is to put us through formal education but education for her. It was this in like in so like this desire to never stop learning. Um, so cs I graduated um from marketing and advertising in. Um. Ah college a very prestigious college in Brazil called mckins mckinse university I came to the us because I knew gaining english fluency was key to getting ahead in my country or any place else in the world. So I came here I didn't have much money and I ah took.
02:04.36
drnobodypodcast
Yes.
02:10.61
Caroline Cunha
Jobs from nanny and um some under the table just cash money but I always had my eyes in big ad agencies because that was my degree and that's what I want to do and that was what I was passionate. So 20 years later I have been lucky enough to work in the. Biggest ad agencies in the world. Um, our obviously stationed in new york our house in new york um, and specifically in the pharmaceutical industry. Um, so 15 of this 20 years in advertising I have spend a year um the key has really. For me has what my mom really wanted to do was that you have to believe in yourself before anyone believes in you and that that was the key to really have a better life than she had um she was to came from a very.
02:59.35
drnobodypodcast
That's interesting.
03:09.25
Caroline Cunha
Humble background. So did my dad so all they want was for us to have a better life and they succeeded here I am in a big agency New York and my brother is just it as a big agency in New Zealand So I think she did a good job. But.
03:22.77
drnobodypodcast
Fancy. Yeah, you guys both succeeded pretty well and consider New Zealand is pretty awesome too.
03:27.84
Caroline Cunha
Oh new Zealand is amazing. So um, right now we are like him in competitive agencies right? I'm in ipg and he's in publicist. Um.
03:38.74
drnobodypodcast
Um, yeah.
03:42.18
Caroline Cunha
But he got while I think I got the better network. He definitely got um a really fantastic living in New Zealand Ah, it's a beautiful good. It is right? It's ah is a really beautiful country and it's.
03:49.72
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's a tough choice. Yeah.
04:00.34
Caroline Cunha
People are amazing and it's like a very welcoming society. You can see like they were able to manage the Covid outbreak better than any other country in the world because ah, people listen to their government and follow the rules. Ah so um, they are very happy there.
04:07.58
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
04:13.85
drnobodypodcast
Now.
04:20.10
drnobodypodcast
Good. Yeah, let's I just want to ask you a couple questions about your story because it's really interesting. So how did you know that you first you wanted to get a degree in marketing and advertising like how do you choose that because personally for me I didn't learn about that.
04:20.26
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah, so that's my story.
04:34.73
Caroline Cunha
Um, his.
04:39.57
drnobodypodcast
Until after I did my ph d which was when I was twenty eight twenty nine whatever it was so so many years later I was like oh this is pretty awesome. How did you discover it.
04:47.86
Caroline Cunha
I know right? So um I was always a advertiser and I have been an advertiser since I was I guess eighteen nineteen. Um I graduated in 2002 so I started college in ninety seven um, and oh my god please.
05:06.26
drnobodypodcast
I That's fine I will delete that I will mark it.
05:06.94
Caroline Cunha
Delete that I don't want people to know my age. Ah. Ah, want people to know why it now is that all right? So I knew that I wanted to do communications but I was not really sure which area of communication was always a very expressive person. Um. But once again I made decisions really based and what my family could Afford. So I really wanted to be an actress and um I like I knew like in Brazil if I was an actress I was not going to make any money.
05:36.14
drnobodypodcast
Oh okay.
05:45.75
drnobodypodcast
So.
05:47.74
Caroline Cunha
Right? and I was not going to be able to fulfill their dream of having a better life than my parents. So I Still so for now the colleges I applied the hardest 1 to get was the 1 that I applied for Drama be almost like knowing that I wasn't going to be accepted because like I had so much competition. So the other schools I I knew I needed to select the best of schools if I was going to really be able to succeed. Um, but the best schools are also the most expensive but with exception of 1 which is the school I graduated and today actually it's highly expensive, but. When I was in Brazil he had a very important tax break that made it more affordable to um to other people was highly competitive so I looked at the at the communication majors and they didn't have journalism which was my fallback. Um.
06:42.35
drnobodypodcast
M.
06:45.25
Caroline Cunha
Like Dan I'm gonna have to choose what is closest to it because that's the college I can't afford my family can afford so they had advertising and marketing and I didn't know very much about it. Um, but I knew that was communications and was close to journalism.
06:50.11
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
07:04.10
Caroline Cunha
I did apply to other 2 schools and applied to journalism and and I was accepted at to all the other ones with exception of the drama school. Um and was in in the decision was what I can afford what my family can afford. And we are not going to be strapped because I know education was very important for my mom and if I wanted the most expensive school she was going to bend backwards to pay but I didn't want to put her in that in that position. So I went to Mckinsey university which was a school that we could afford and in the first here I quite enjoy actually and in Bru brazil was a little bit different than in new west and as you take 2 years of general ad can tell you guys get it easy in Brazil we got technical classes from Freshman year so I remember like having heavy dutyy seiotics class like like. And that's what I think it make me really to fall in love with advertising. We got this classes um, like for example, the the science of communication and semiotics which are like I talk to my colleagues advertisers very few understand semiotics.
08:18.28
drnobodypodcast
I Don't even know what that is.
08:19.10
Caroline Cunha
Range but I had those classes. Well I can't quite explain as well. But it was a long time ago, but it's really, but it's really like this. This is the foundation of science of communications right? you have and because I learned in portuguese.
08:24.18
drnobodypodcast
Ah, okay.
08:31.21
drnobodypodcast
Oh.
08:36.65
Caroline Cunha
Gonna be very hard for me to translate. But you're gonna have the sign and and the receiver and the messages that are sending in between um and the noises that can get into the way of this message from the sign to the receiver. Um, so I just remember being.
08:44.20
drnobodypodcast
M.
08:56.23
Caroline Cunha
Fascinated and why oh I can't explain semiotics anymore I can't see it in action when I watch a movie when we make decisions on um, on like what type of subliminal science to put it in. In our ad lob in the work that we do in the agency right? Um, maybe we put it like you like we have a client where we there is a whole discussion about the um oh my god what was the prop I can't quite remember the name of the prop. But it was a whole like the props that we put it in the ads right? That's our parasemiotics and we do now is very but it's it's instinct for for us being in this industry for such a long time but in the beginning was right in the beginning. When you are 18 year old self and you don't know anything and how to choose a prop in you learning about the foundations of the the um the ad of the communications is very cool. So. Long story short. You ask me how I chose advertising I chose advertising in that year right I went into this is school because is what I could afford and I in that very first year was having fun I was like wow I can make this a real career and that's so why has been for a long time.
10:20.70
drnobodypodcast
So yeah, so it's interesting. You had to make a choice based on how much you could afford and to you how hard was that for you personally as as a student like an incoming student.
10:21.54
Caroline Cunha
Advertising.
10:29.70
Caroline Cunha
Is.
10:38.37
drnobodypodcast
How did you do you remember how you felt about that or how you think about it retrospectively now. So.
10:42.31
Caroline Cunha
Um, you know it was because financial frugality was part of our lives since the day I was born. It wasn't some like I it was like. Obviously I'm gonna make the most financial choice. The best financial choice. Um, that for my family that is not going to overpower that so it wasn't something that really upset me um, but it was something that I I needed to be conscious and I was always very grateful. I could do that and I'm gonna tell you like now like so many years has passed and I don't have a student that um and I came to masters in this state as well and I don't have a student f and that but I don't have a student that. Because of my parents not only they pay for my my undergra education but because of the what they taught me during their undergrad and how they're paying for that school it really equipped me to go through masters for through a grad degree in United states. Not owning any money right? So it was um, it was really a wonderful lesson That's why like I find college college education and while um, there is so many so many people talk about. Um.
11:59.20
drnobodypodcast
Amazing. So.
12:15.51
Caroline Cunha
Formal education. How can be wasteful you know I and I understand in part, why people say that. But for my education is not the degree you get, but the lessons you learn in those years right and that's exactly for me like you learn how to. Um, how to see people that are very different than you and you learn how to um, be exposed to different ideas and you learn how to pay for college which is a very expensive investment that you make in yourself. So yeah I didn't I didn't think.
12:48.31
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, definitely yeah.
12:52.48
Caroline Cunha
Very much of it I was just very grateful at that time.
12:56.69
drnobodypodcast
Nice. Yeah I I had a similar experience with college and I ended up going to Kane University because it was the cheapest school in New Jersey But what I took from it was significantly more what it what it ended up being worth right? and I think that's the what exactly what you're saying.
13:03.45
Caroline Cunha
Easy.
13:10.51
Caroline Cunha
Um, yes, exactly.
13:16.56
drnobodypodcast
Is it doesn't matter where you go. It's the it's what you take out of it. So if you don't take advantage. Ah, everything that's around you and what you could do and the opportunities that are provided you there and you're really just going there just to go there and doing whatever you have to do to finish. But that's not the goal every time. It's what you take out of it. Um.
13:18.30
Caroline Cunha
Exactly.
13:29.84
Caroline Cunha
Is that? yeah.
13:35.35
drnobodypodcast
And when you said it I just thought I had like flashbacks to when I was in school and I was like yeah I totally every time I saw an opportunity for something science related Bam I was in there I took advantage. So yeah, thanks for sharing that with us. Um, you mentioned.
13:47.88
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah.
13:53.14
drnobodypodcast
To me before about what your mother instilled in you in terms of like her her ah her saying you want to talk about it real quick.
14:00.81
Caroline Cunha
Sure so ah, mom said like um, well Mom had many things. Um, when then it was like be a independent thinker and you will be independent forever. Um, which was 1 of those things like for a woman a woman. In Brazil she was really trying to say it's like the way for a husband. Ah, which was awesome because I never did right and I and I'm so glad for her for this so that be but but if you take that in.
14:27.20
drnobodypodcast
That's fair, but.
14:40.52
Caroline Cunha
To be much bigger than it is be an independent thinker and you're going to always be dependent. It's not only financially but also emotionally and intellectually right, there is real power in being an independent person an independent thinker. That means you always questioning and you're always ad educatcating and pushing the envelope of your own beliefs I think that's the first thing but she also said she used to say another thing is like in order to succeed you had to believe in yourself before everybody else believe in you that was also something that she used to.
15:15.16
drnobodypodcast
Wow! yeah.
15:15.97
Caroline Cunha
Say a lot which is very true right? Like so how can you be confident and defend a specific point of view because you're independent thinker if you don't believe in that point of view yourself, you're not going to convince anyone so um, Mamo is very wise and she is. Um, all she wanted was for us to have a better life and that she had herself and because she was so wise and she wanted so much for us. That's why she always challenge us to think about something different like be independent Thinker so you're gonna be independentent forever. Is very different for a little girl in Sao paulo in a very um um patriarchal society um to be an independent thinker right? and but also like.
16:05.95
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
16:11.64
Caroline Cunha
You have to believe in yourself if anybody else is going to believe in you and that goes for anything from like going a date to going I interview all those things are true right.
16:21.54
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, absolutely yeah, um I got to say that like my dad also instilled that definitely not those kind of wise words but basically just saying he just wanted us to do better than him. You know my dad was just a truck driver. You know we weren't.
16:31.40
Caroline Cunha
May have.
16:41.10
drnobodypodcast
Didn't have money either and he just always tried to give us the opportunities we can have and going to college was 1 of them and I definitely didn't want to go to college but he really pushed it and then here we are doing this now.
16:47.18
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah, so Dr nobody went for now wanting to go to college from holding a Ph D That's a lot of changes.
17:00.14
drnobodypodcast
Ah, yeah, there is a lot of things that happen in between that time but that's for a different episode but I want to talk about now. Um your so marketing and advertising might not be for everyone and and that's definitely something people.
17:04.82
Caroline Cunha
Um.
17:14.99
Caroline Cunha
Um, no.
17:19.80
drnobodypodcast
Have heard of but they don't really understand it and I personally when I joined marketing advertising world I had no idea what it was I Just know when I see commercials for drugs. There always looks so happy and then they ramble off some stuff. Ah how deadly it is and then it was like but take it because it's great.
17:30.34
Caroline Cunha
Um, ah what we do is so much more complicated than that. Yeah, but.
17:36.56
drnobodypodcast
So is that exactly what we do right.? Why don't you Why don't you give the listeners like a quick rundown of what you do your what your title. What does it mean and what marketing advertising is so.
17:52.52
Caroline Cunha
So um I am a senior um vice president of a strategy for Ipg health. Um, and though the the fancy title just means that I've um, been doing this for a long time.
18:01.77
drnobodypodcast
Oof.
18:11.71
Caroline Cunha
Ah, and I have a little bit more experience. Um, but and so and I work for our Pg health and we do advertising for pharmaceutical companies in my role as a strategic planner. Um I I think about I have 2 main rows. I give recommendations that really push the health of the brand to different places even if sometimes that means setting clients because sometimes they are so close to their brand that they don't see what is the best.
18:48.50
drnobodypodcast
The brand is the drug right? so.
18:49.78
Caroline Cunha
Way forward and simple. That's a very good point. Thank you Yes, the brand is the drug. Ah so when you see a commercial that says take this brand and the name is a brand right? Um, but brands. It's not only the pharmaceutical.
19:03.81
drnobodypodcast
So.
19:09.75
Caroline Cunha
Industry they have brands brands exists everywhere Coca -cola is a brand apple is a brand um and you know like that the the drink you drink the the coffee drink is Starbucks they albrands and brands are very valuable assets for companies. So um.
19:13.10
drnobodypodcast
Yes, yes.
19:29.30
Caroline Cunha
The pharmaceutical industry have a product that they take that compound and they transform that compound into a brand in the main existing of a brand is to really summarize what the benefits emotional functional of that product. We mean for this person's life. So um. The advices we bring is to really um, make that brand as valuable as possible in a way to do that is to understand what is happening in the marketplace as like what are the competitors of the brand. But I also understand how they're doctors and patients. And making decisions about the condition that that brand dash product can solve right? So many of the the the decisions patients in atps make many times not even conscious. Um. They think that they're making decisions for 1 reason, but they're really making decisions for a different reason. So a lot of what we do is understanding the science of decision making and how that influenced the health of a brand. So I think that's the best summary like I can really give like in. Ten fifteen seconds from what we do, but it's your question. it's not for everyone no it's it's not um I think that there is the beauty of advertising is that is highly creative, right? And if you like creativity. Um, it. it can be like a really it can be really energizing um but there is um a dark side of advertising which is um, it's a little bit of art that is really um. Um, what I'm looking for is product producta size right? Advertising is a product so but it's different than if you buy a coca-cola right? Coca -cola has a very specific formula you put ah 1 ingredient 1 another ingredient then boom you got your coca -cola the same every single time. Or a pharmaceutical There is a recipe that goes there or even like in science many times you've put it like a recipe together and you know what youre gonna get at the end that's not really the case in advertising right? and. But it it is a little bit of ah art as people come in and give their opinion. Um, but there is many times. Um, there isn't how to know if that is.
22:13.39
Caroline Cunha
Really the right way to go or not unless it's based in your experience right? and based on how the books that you have read for a million years and so bringing that balance of um art and science can be in nerveracking.
22:23.17
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
22:32.90
Caroline Cunha
Um, especially because because you're creative. You're also in a very emotionally charged industry. Um, so it's out this recipes creativity is emotionally charged is a lot of opinions and sometimes your craft in what you bring to the table can get lost. And that can that can really um, really be a catalyst to your imposter syndrome right? Which is really what we want to talk about it today. Um you because it's not engineering. It's not I exact science where you put a 2 plus 2 equals four. A lot of it is based on your experience and it is based on your knowledge based like of the books you've read and the the case studies that you've seen and you make assessment of how that can solve the problem you're trying to Solve. Um, but. Once again because it's not exact science and when it's challenging over and over again that really affects your confidence in how to deliver the right answer and it comes like you ready go shaky right? If you're in a place where you never saw a problem before right like i. Really take the half or all the marketers that are um, commercializing covid drugs vaccines because that that industry of covid related products right? Tasks vaccines antivarros monoclonal antibodies like. Nobody has ever gone to that space so doing anything that space is very nerveracking because you never done it before so you have to rely on your expertise and for a person that suffer from imposter syndrome that can be there.
24:14.80
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
24:28.39
Caroline Cunha
Worst nightmare because really navigating that unknown space with confidence and reallybracing your vulnerability is incredibly testing. Um, so yeah I don't know how I and here but I did.
24:44.98
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, now that's fine. So when I joined advertising I didn't know what? Ah what role brand strategists had like I didn't really under. Actually I didn't even know my own role itself. So like I feel like a lot of the role is evolved.
24:57.50
Caroline Cunha
Um.
25:04.40
drnobodypodcast
Based on like how you're saying your own experience and the more drugs you start advertising and marketing The more experience you get even if it's a totally different disease state So meaning like cancer and then you're marketing a heart drug.
25:10.40
Caroline Cunha
Um, yes.
25:20.00
drnobodypodcast
It translates Yes, the science is different. The drug is different but the the overall idea is still the same and those ideas can translate back and forth and you know to your point you you have your your high title. Not just because you've done it for a very long time. It's because you've deservingly got to that point. And your career because you've managed to succeed every time when these challenges come to you right? and.
25:43.72
Caroline Cunha
Ah I won't say that I succeeded every time but I I learned from every time I didn't succeed right? So I succeeded more than I have not um but I never.
25:52.29
drnobodypodcast
Okay.
26:02.78
Caroline Cunha
Took um a a loss of whatever that is right? a loss of a recommendation or or wrong recommendation for granted and I always took that as a learning opportunity. Um, but yeah. It also helped that I'd been lucky enough to have had a very diverse set of experience I have colleagues that they are the oncologist planner right? and they or others that are the diabetes planner and that's what they've done most of their lives. Um.
26:36.60
drnobodypodcast
So.
26:38.60
Caroline Cunha
Is very common in Oncologylagen It's very common in diabetes I I cannot even say that I didn't want to do that. It just didn't have like that happened like that for me and and I'm actually quite grateful because the diversity of different brands experiences different agencies different. Ah, targets and by targets I mean the people that are we're actually communicating um really create this immense repository of experience that I can draw from and trying to learn. That situation and apply to a new client or to a new situation right? Um, and I think that's the main thing for me is like never stop learning I've really never stopped learning like in That's what I tell to the teams that I manage by the people that work for me is like. You have to be curious all the time and it's like you have to want to go to to to the books and I never like I'm telling the teams all the books that I read and isn on then if they read or not they're there. They're the owners of their own learning right.
27:38.31
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
27:56.64
Caroline Cunha
But I it's really key for me that I am empowering the team to be as curious and have the same knowledge that I do um so for me, that's key for you to try to really fight that imposter syndrome is trying to. Learn as much as you can.
28:15.38
drnobodypodcast
I Have so many follow up questions but I don't want to belabor the the different issues but I guess 1 thing I I want to understand and pass through to the listeners is ah your job. You. Actively have to be learning because everything changes console is that correct.
28:34.12
Caroline Cunha
Yes, every day every day like it's funny. You ask that Dr. nobody I was literally in the shower yesterday dreaming for retirement and listen I am 20 years away from retirement right.
28:50.15
drnobodypodcast
Ah.
28:52.11
Caroline Cunha
Like like thinking about like having a drink in my retirement dining room and thinking about what is the thing about advertising that is happening this day that I'm so out of touch. Um, but it changes it changes every day and it's it's hard to stay on top of it.
28:56.20
drnobodypodcast
I.
29:11.88
Caroline Cunha
I Just came to acceptance that I'm not gonna know everything that it changes all the time right? So I I made a decision that I'm gonna try to be as good as I am and in a handful of things as as good as I can in a handful of things.
29:30.23
drnobodypodcast
But that's why you have a team right.
29:31.18
Caroline Cunha
Um, so that's why I have a team and I tried to get very different people than me. Um, and it's and I never been wrong. Um, about getting people that obviously. Um, looking for similar traits like curiosity hardworking. Um, um, proactiveness independent Thinker right? that that so those are really universal traits that the team has but what they're good at as it comes to the craft in this skill right? I'm. Like if there is somebody that is feels more comfortable in the high science brands versus the more consumers brands I Want them all because they complement my skill differently. Um, like I there is 1 of our team members that are very good in the.
30:16.43
drnobodypodcast
Yes.
30:24.68
Caroline Cunha
Ah, experience customer experiences strategy and which is something that I am not that good at so I love that he's there because he can continue bringing new knowledge to to the team. Um, but yeah, it's it's hard to be. Up to date to what is happening and and and there it's for me is a little bit like you got to be up to date in advertising. Obviously you got to be up to date with the news in Pharmaceuticals. Um in technology any business right? So it's it's really a ray of. And culture like I think I can go on and on and on right because everything influences people in people's decision making right? and in the meantime we're also serving phmaceutical clients. Um.
31:01.20
drnobodypodcast
So.
31:16.31
Caroline Cunha
That are in in to try to maximize their profits. But I also do good to people so how do we balance those 2 things.
31:23.55
drnobodypodcast
Yeah I think it would be worthwhile to have you back on and then me put on my medical director hat as your partner and help people understand that in advertising worlds. It's um.
31:31.10
Caroline Cunha
Um.
31:39.87
drnobodypodcast
It's a different world and just being in pharmaceuticals and selling drugs people just take this coggingation of like it's bad. It's evil you're doing the wrong things or things are happening. Whatever. But but that's not True. You know we are in the trenches especially with you know these covid stuff and different new drugs. New technologies that people are scared of. But it's our job to to make them comfortable with that right.
32:01.57
Caroline Cunha
Yes, yes, like for a while I I thought like I was very conflicted right when I came to the states like many like a million years ago I am I had a mentor. Ah, his name was mitch collisa and mitu was this really wise person that I love him so much and he worked for pharmaia before pharmacy was bought by pfizer he worked for pfizer. So he had a long career in pharmaceuticals and because he was mentoring me. He was really um, insisting that I would apply for the pharma industry and I remember having this conversation with him. This was like a while like um, we're talking about many years ago and at that time the minister of health in Brazil was breaking the patent of some h I v drugs and um because he wanted to distribute those drugs in the public health system. To try totra contain the iia epidemics and being a young naive person at the time it thought good for him. You know like this is awesome. We're gonna save lives and and and it's obviously the cause is amazing and I was talking to him and that he.
33:28.16
drnobodypodcast
Um.
33:35.19
Caroline Cunha
Being a pharma veteranin. He made a really good point which is like if Pharma industry if the pharma if the pharma industries doesn't have the financial incentives to make money of selling the drugs that will never be innovation. So the drug that. The health minister is trying to break the patent in Brazil would never see the light of day if the draw if the pharmaceutical company was as incentivized to make a profit ah out of it. So obviously needless to say he really was against the whole patent breaking but that didn't. Right? with me right? and then fast forward now here I am I'm a senior the strategist doing the devils work. Let's put it between quotation because some of the devils work right? and it is actually I find.
34:24.65
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
34:31.58
Caroline Cunha
Um, rewarding in a way to be able to see the innovations of pharmaceuticals right? Um, listen the pharmaceutical industry does terrible things. Obviously they do do they need to charge 500 dollars for Insulin Pan. No, they do not insulin has been in the market for almost a hundred years in here but on the other hand there is this other drug for Sma which is um, ah um, genetic disease that little babies have.
34:52.13
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
35:09.31
Caroline Cunha
And it's cost 2 point four million dollars. Um, ah right? Well obviously no person is paying is the insurance people that are paying and I didn't work on on that drug at all. But it's gene therapy the complications of.
35:11.24
drnobodypodcast
Oh who has that kind of money. What.
35:27.37
Caroline Cunha
It's almost a procedure right? It's like gene therapy for those people that I know and understand it's like you take a sample of tissue from a person you modify in the lab. You. Bring it back and you shot it back in the comparison. It's highly complicated right? And it's highly expensive I don't even know how many years they invested in research that but I can't tell you that gene therapy has been in research for 40 years so it took 40 years of no money.
35:41.28
drnobodypodcast
Um.
36:00.23
Caroline Cunha
For them to come up with a drug that probably like a very small number of babies in the world have it. So for the continuation of Innovation. The Pharma industry needs to find a way to um, continue the the money in the in. The money coming in for the innovation to continue coming in right? So I So this idea now looking back at the conversation in day I read with mit like obviously it's not cool to break innovation patents right?? um.
36:19.26
drnobodypodcast
Correct. Yeah yes.
36:36.63
Caroline Cunha
I think as we move forward I hope that there is a better balance where innovation and public health are working together for a better balance. But I really move from this place of feeling like I'm doing the Devil's work and I don't feel and I don't feel bad anymore when. Somebody tells me I am doing the Devil's work because I'm not like and like I hear conversations from patients in Brazil right? and that they don't know the treatment options that they have or women in Brazil that wanted to get r u d and they.
36:58.62
drnobodypodcast
So now.
37:14.38
Caroline Cunha
Doctors refuse to give them ah iud or they don't even know the names of the iid and this only happens in Brazil because advertising can be there for consumers or pharmaceuticals what we can do here right? so. There is a real positive side to the work. We do.
37:31.73
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, no totally and that's why I think it needs another episode to go deeper into it is 1 I've I joined marketing advertising because that's how it was sold to me as well that you're gonna learn Constantly. You're gonna be challenged constantly and. That's how my mind is it. It just needs to be challenged if not I get bored and I start buying things and those buying things just lead to a very bad rabbit hole. So Yeah I need to I need to be controlled by being distracted in a different way. Um, but yeah I think.
37:59.33
Caroline Cunha
Please.
38:09.37
drnobodypodcast
It's really interesting the different paths that people can take and knowing new paths like marketing advertising is is novel to them and an opportunity to challenge to have bringing bring in people to be challenged in a new way that they never thought they could because at least for Ph Ds It's just. Academia and if you don't join Academia. You are. You're like shunned. It's just a terrible. Yeah, and it's and it's a real thing it really I did experience that um throughout my Ph D knowing that I was gonna I was never intending to do academia ever from the beginning. But.
38:31.57
Caroline Cunha
You so dear. So.
38:48.22
drnobodypodcast
Um I Digress Now. So I Want to talk about you. You keep bringing up imposter syndrome So in our in my previous episode before I talked about to my listeners about imposter syndrome and my imposter syndrome which stem From. Ah, really I felt it during my Ph D I'm pretty sure I felt it before then I just didn't recognize it and just like other mental issues that people have they're not aware of it and I Think. Imposter syndrome is definitely 1 that people hear about it. They see it in movies. Maybe people joke around but it really affects people um a lot and I know I wasn't the only 1 in my Ph D program that suffered from imposter syndrome I know at.
39:34.31
Caroline Cunha
You see.
39:34.64
drnobodypodcast
Our current agency I am definitely not the only 1 suffering for imposster syndrome. Um, if you could first in your own words what? you? what? how would you define imposter syndrome for our listeners. They got the the dictionary definition in the previous episode but I just want to.
39:49.35
Caroline Cunha
Are you.
39:52.23
drnobodypodcast
Hear it from your words so that they can hear it in a different way.
39:53.88
Caroline Cunha
For sure for me is like this constant innate feeling that you believe you're not good enough to be where you are. Right? You don't belong to that conversation. You don't belong to this organization. You don't belong to the subject. Um, you're not good enough to solve this problem and as a strateg as I deal with problems I'll get long. That's how I do. So of problems right? and when you're being bombarded with like you have to know the right question to ask. There is no freaking formula to what is the right question to ask istinct and that's why I was saying a few minutes ago about this dark side of marketing.
40:25.98
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
40:45.31
Caroline Cunha
Which is like is not exact Science. It's like does it this thing that comes from an inside. So for me Imposter Syndrome is this thing that you don't you feel like you don't belong there. It doesn't matter how educated how smart. How many brands you turn around how many like boardrooms you've been how many ceos and cmos you have talked to is that feeling that you still still don't have what it takes to solve that problem at hand and for a woman. Witha Accent whose hair is now blond. Ah, this is quite pervasive right? because I'm constantly thinking about that I did I use this smartest word I could use to make my point now I in secure.
41:38.51
drnobodypodcast
Ah.
41:40.38
Caroline Cunha
Now Oh my God now I'm gonna be called out because they don't belong here. Um so yes, Imposter Syndrome is very insidious.
41:49.22
drnobodypodcast
So I'll give an example of my ah quick example of imposter syndrome in my ph d and then I want to hear your example. So for me my whole life. Even even when I was working in the bakery and shopri is my first job. I always wanted to find how to to do that job like how do I do it? The best I can um and then working at the pharmacy and all my other jobs I came after I always bought books on how to do I mean even for podcasting I bought books how to do podcasting? Yeah I have them ah in front of me.
42:12.39
Caroline Cunha
Um, this is.
42:21.00
Caroline Cunha
Um, I believe you.
42:27.94
drnobodypodcast
So There's just like this this um this need in my in my mind that I need to know how to do this because if not I'm going to fail and people are gonna know and they're gonna call me out and and I'm scared of that. That's it's the fear of being called out for me of ah being hey Carl's. Ah Dr Nobody You don't really, you don't really know what you're doing here. You know what's going on why? why?? What's you know, explained to me so I still lived that with that fear even in our agency in my job and talking to clients just having.
42:47.31
Caroline Cunha
Um.
43:05.16
drnobodypodcast
The clients are the worst because they're your boss. Essentially they're the ones who are paying you to do your job. So if if ah, if a client was to say something it would devastate me even worse than if my my personal boss would so that's my experience and it still lingers imposter syndrome I feel like never goes away.
43:07.11
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah.
43:13.95
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah.
43:21.61
Caroline Cunha
Now.
43:23.52
drnobodypodcast
Maybe at ah at a lower level but it's just this this nagging feeling that just it. It's it sucks.
43:30.17
Caroline Cunha
Yeah, it's It's definitely not pleasant and and I think you are your experience of educating yourself as much as you can is something that I experience especially as a plan I range because when you think about um. I Have a problem and where do I find the solution I don't know in the market in the target in the company in the product in the culture right? There's so many different ways that I can find the root of this problem which is going to give me the answer. So. What is the habit that I have developed I overstudy right? I turn ever single rock. So Yes I may go in and be the most prepared person in the room. But then I have received feedback of like.
44:09.57
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
44:26.43
Caroline Cunha
Um, you are making too many points is you have to decide which point is important. It's like ah so it's like you try to overcompensate and and maybe your overcompensation is still not enough because you went too far so it's like.
44:35.51
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
44:44.50
Caroline Cunha
There is never the right answer or like you can never get it right when you have the impoor syndrome right? You overpre prepare and then you're punished for overpreparing um and as as I grow in my career. What I'm trying to.
44:52.50
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
45:01.81
Caroline Cunha
Really um, a arrive at a place where maybe I have a lot of his strategic skills right? I don't need to like obviously I you always need to continue searching for new Strategic skills. A new new. Things of learning but maybe what I really really need to learn is how to be a better executive. How to be a better manager. How to be a better visionary. How to make better relationships and and I think that's. Ah, reflection of the imposster syndrman of like I needed to overcompensate as it comes to strategy. So I'm gonna be I'm gonna consume all the strategy bucks and articles and movies and and and like Ted talks that I possibly can on a strategy but now I left.
45:49.55
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
45:54.97
Caroline Cunha
This left me exposed to oh maybe I'm not the best person in building relationships with people with people up and down. Um, so those are are part of our growth I find that it's. Very much a reflection of you feeling at some point that you're you're not good enough to be at the table.
46:21.27
drnobodypodcast
Yep, and what moment did you experience the worse imposter syndrome for you in your in your career or in your life or whatever so people can feel um, they can sense. Sorry.
46:25.44
Caroline Cunha
Um.
46:39.20
drnobodypodcast
They can see that someone at your level can still experience it and they can They can still succeed to get to your point even with imposter syndrome.
46:47.14
Caroline Cunha
Um, Wow there. There are many um, but the 1 that comes to my mind by now it was um I was running a messaging workshop for a pretty big Insulin client. And um, the that that is specific brand was in trouble because they had a specific competitor that it was coming into market and they were very nervous and they wanted to refresh their messaging and I wasn't easy because I haven't um. Ran a message workshop to that degree up to that point I have done message workshops before but this was 1 like you can imagine. There was like 25 clients in the room every single level up and up and um and I went in And. I was very nervous the entire time and I was like that workshop probably cost the clients. The agency probably charge a hundred thousand dollars easily. And I now knowing the price tag of this work session I'm in front of this room and I'm just like and I can feel like I'm not doing what I think you could be the best like all I can think about is like somebody else can do this so much better than I and um. But I did I did entire workshop and I remember my account partner giving me a real hard time before going in the workshop. Um, he was a y Man. We can make a whole other episode about. That in advertising but I remember my account partner giving me a real hard time going in which really contribute to those feelings of not being the right person to run their room and I wrote the output before because that's what we do in in when we run Workshops. Like this is are the learnings and he gave me a really incredible hard time I look it back. There was like 10 versions because every time I send it to Him. He would make a comment and I would make his comment and was never good enough and at some point he made a decision to not share with a client.
49:08.85
drnobodypodcast
Ah, man.
49:11.95
Caroline Cunha
And that really um, hurt me and a few months later I was asked off the business and I was incredibly upset. But I'm gonna tell you um I go back to their report. Obviously do you have a copy of the report.
49:16.13
drnobodypodcast
I'm sure.
49:31.82
Caroline Cunha
That was 1 of the best output reports I ever wrote and um, as now 10 years later still like like in the business running message architectures workshops. Um, it was it was. Ah, phenomenal workshop. But at that moment and with the people around me. Not really giving me the support that I needed I felt like I wasn't the right person in the room.
50:00.50
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, So you're besides feeling the imposter syndrome You felt like it was elevated or escalated or made worse because people around you not knowing that you're dealing with this imposter syndrome just didn't support you the way that team members should in any job. But specifically in marketing advertising I think team is 1 of the core things that we need teammates and.
50:22.20
Caroline Cunha
Oh absolutely. Oh yeah, your team can make her break you um and not only the work but also the emotional support that you get from the team is is fundamental for the Success. Um. And I just remember being the situation where I was new to this client was new to this category. Um, 1 of the things that I learned about diabetes was that people were diabetes lifers right in our industry. That's how they do most of their lives. And coming to that situation. Um, it was I I felt very very very vulnerable and I didn't get the support from the team which really made the imposter syndrome even bigger and as I look back at that experience. I Can't think about anything that I would do differently um at that point in time because that's what I that's who I was and that's the things I had.
51:29.26
drnobodypodcast
So you would it be safe to say that this says that experience was definitely your worst but maybe your best because of what came after and how it it prepared you later on. So.
51:40.59
Caroline Cunha
Um, it was definitely the worse. Um I don't know if it's the best. But definitely I think you learn a lot from this from the situations right? Um I had ah another. And another experience where um, somebody said oh you know you're not advertising material. It's like you know what? you know, go where the sun doesn't shine you know and because um, that was really not fair. But. Those experiences really contribute to it right? and it gives you that drive to believe in yourself when before anybody else believes in you.
52:27.84
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, what was your what was the most pivotal moment in your career that just changed everything and take your time to think about it. You know there's there could be a couple but 1 that just instantly comes to your head.
52:37.73
Caroline Cunha
Ah, wow, that's.
52:45.83
Caroline Cunha
Oh coming to the United states that's definitely the pivotal time. It's 1 of those forks in the road where like if you go here, you have a very different hand than if you go here. Not only the life that I live but also professionally because what drove me to united states was.
52:46.56
drnobodypodcast
Your mind.
53:04.20
Caroline Cunha
My ambition to have a really nice and brilliant career. Um had I stayed in Brazil or decided to go back to brazil after year 1 or 2 I would have a very different life I would probably work in at asian cities in Brazil. Probably the affiliates of the the main agencies that we have here in new york um, but it's very difficult to know like would I be able to succeed in Brazil we spoke about Brazil brazil being a very patriarchal society I don't know it's hard to tell. Right? Like you can't you can know what is the life not lived that is for me the most pivotal decision and that has changed my professional career.
53:50.42
drnobodypodcast
And that's amazing and I could have totally different implications. Also yeah I mean there's definitely people that see that as a value and then there's people that don't and they make do what they have but then there's people that just can't.
53:54.88
Caroline Cunha
Completely different.
54:10.41
drnobodypodcast
Have that opportunity that you had to come here or to you know to be fair to any country that has more opportunity than their current country so you know good for you and you know we're glad to have you here.
54:15.40
Caroline Cunha
Yes. Thank you? Ah, Thank you so much. It wasn't It wasn't easy and I know I remember very um, ah very clearly the day I became a citizen and I. Coming off the the court. The immigration court and with your naturalization certificate my very next thought was like I would never have to do with immigration again.
54:38.80
drnobodypodcast
So.
54:48.31
drnobodypodcast
Hey yeah I've heard it's ah it's not easy takes a long time and it's yeah.
54:52.21
Caroline Cunha
You feel as a immigrant in this country. Um I'm lucky to be in in in my state and in a city that is very welcoming to immigrants. Um. But many times you you don't feel welcome right? It may be something somebody said such as what I told you the reason why somebody said I wasn't advertising material was because of my accent. Um right? So It takes. A long time and maybe this is something that he I will never get over right because I will always have an accent and I will always look like I'm from a country in South America. Um, so yeah, it was It was hard.
55:46.28
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and definitely I felt that during my Ph D not not an immigrant since I'm puerto Rican but definitely just being Hispanic Um, and.
55:48.76
Caroline Cunha
They they they don't make you feel welcome very often.
56:04.32
drnobodypodcast
Just being in an industry like science it it makes it tough. It's not something that is usually common for for Latinos and hispanics. But you make again, you make do what you have and you succeed and you just push on through which anybody can do. But it's just that. Desire and motivation to do It is what falls on the person and I definitely and you definitely had it. But there's people I know that did not but you know it is what it is but in in turn in that light. Can you tell the listeners 1 5 things and it's up to you How many you want to say that are essential in in terms of career just in career or in terms of marketing advertise that is essential for succeeding and.
56:54.17
Caroline Cunha
Oh wow. Okay, so let's think about the the most important things for you to succeed in in advertising and marketing range I think the first 1 is um, you had to be curious. You had like. You can sit and wait for the news you can sit and wait for your boss to tell you what to do? You have to be curious and curiosity means trying a new social media and thinking not the implication for your clients or um. Reading an article and trying to think about how that reflects a specific thinking that you had a few weeks ago, right? So I think curiosity is very important that very easily fits in the next 1 which is like you don't know anything. You really? don't right like be humble. You don't know anything continue learning continue learning en read and learn and learn and read everything you can write. Um.
57:49.89
drnobodypodcast
Ah.
58:03.79
Caroline Cunha
Is not because I'm a senior person that I would be ashamed of joining a basic strategy training right? because there is always a different way of thinking that you may not ever have been exposed. Um, be flexible ah things. Are not necessarily the same way this every single time and that's this flexibility is what makes bringing these different experiences and finding different solutions. Viable. Right? being flexible I don't mean like accommodating I've been flexible in your thinking being open to the decisions that you've made in the past worked but the decisions that you make now may not be may not work right? Like who moved you who moved my cheese. Is the best book ever written right? because that's for me, it's like you the the little mice that is willing to think differently is the mice that gets fed. Um, so what else um.
59:10.71
drnobodypodcast
M.
59:17.97
Caroline Cunha
be curious be flexible be learning um, 2 more thingses it well I have 1 more at least you got to be a hardworking. This industry is not.
59:24.49
drnobodypodcast
You don't you don't have to do 2 more things if you want to? yeah.
59:31.71
drnobodypodcast
Absolutely yes.
59:37.66
Caroline Cunha
Industry that is um, very ah, accommodating of if you're not a hardworking and I know sometimes people take it for granted but when I mean be a hardworking is like you got to be in it. And I'm not talking about working from nine to Nine. That's not what I'm talking about which happens as we know we may work long hours. But it's not about the long hours. But it's about to put yourself into the work because that's what makes gray work by passion is what an enthusiasm is what.
59:59.70
drnobodypodcast
Yes, well.
01:00:14.93
Caroline Cunha
Makes great work so that is about being a good worker and I mean being a hardworking right? If you're a person that is going to do your nine to 5 countier Minutes. And can wait to be out of there. You're not going to go very far in this industry. Um, so I guess that's why people like me with a lot of passion can go farter because.
01:00:33.57
drnobodypodcast
So.
01:00:46.28
Caroline Cunha
I Put a passion on everything I do I put passion and work I put passion and passion and passion and food I put passion in friends and relationships. Um, that's who I am um and you've got to be willing to um.
01:00:54.11
drnobodypodcast
And yeah.
01:01:05.52
Caroline Cunha
Deal with the dysfunction. Um a little bit right? Things are not. They're not fitting in boxes in advertising like people are emotional. That's why they're creative right? They have in order to be Creative. You had to be in touch with your emotions. Um. So emotions sometimes can make things a little dysfunctional so you have to be willing to go with it Sometimes I'm not and and that could be painful.
01:01:37.34
drnobodypodcast
Absolutely I feel like a lot of the points that you said anyway, translate to general like career stuff I know for me personally 1 thing I got called out early on in my life was I always packed up my things earlier than I should have so. Basically when I saw that time was five ten minutes left I would start putting my books away or you know start preparing to leave and then as soon as that time hit I would leave and if we were in meetings I would have my stuff packed and just kind of show to those that the person speaking hey I'm ready to go so finish up.
01:02:08.79
Caroline Cunha
Um, if.
01:02:14.45
drnobodypodcast
So Someone called me out on it and it was a very high person at Columbia who talked to me that's when I was at my columbia program and they're like Dr Nobi you You can't do that. That's it's Disrespectful. It's rude and it shows that you don't care and that totally changed the way I do things. Now that we work virtually most people do it's harder but I just leave my green we work on teams So I leave my green icon on to show people hey I'm still on just in case but really hoping that no 1 ever messages me. Ah, okay.
01:02:33.14
Caroline Cunha
Are. A.
01:02:46.41
Caroline Cunha
Ah, yeah, you know it's incredible. This experience is like the 1 you just describe those early experiences in your career really? um, really shape your career throughout I remember my very. Like my very first meaningful job in Brazil before I came to the states I was a senior and I already had this full time job which was really like really incredible I was very lucky to have that job and because i. Was new and I wanted to make an impression somebody was presenting something and I don't even remember what I said but I just remember I said something on very flattering to the project I made a criticism and there was maybe 10 people in the room. The presentation went on. The director. Ah let everybody go and the presentation was given by a peer. Maybe she was a 1 or 2 years more senior than I but she was a peer and he let everyone go asked me to stay behind and he looked at me very seriously and he said.
01:03:51.73
drnobodypodcast
Yes.
01:04:03.58
Caroline Cunha
Caroline If you don't have anything to fix the problem. Don't highlight the problem and and I reman like I and I by me I was already very scared of him because he was like this very scary director and I was like this very very.
01:04:08.33
drnobodypodcast
Oh wow.
01:04:22.98
Caroline Cunha
But be Junior person. But so he ah he was already very serious and he he made an extra effort to be extra serious but I'm gonna tell you like that totally killed my week. Um, but he stayed with me because i. Um, now very conscious I was very young I was maybe 20 maybe 21 I'm very conscious that when I am going to highlight a problem when I'm going to criticize a problem in a project that we are working together. I try to bring a solution to the table at the same time. It may not be a good solution but it shows that I'm willing to contribute to the project in a positive way and if I identify the problem and I don't have any solution to give. I put a disclaim I'm going to highlight this problem and I'm sorry I don't have a solution to to give but I will sit with you and think about a solution for this problem that I'm going to highlight but and I highlight the problem that made me a much better collaborator.
01:05:31.10
drnobodypodcast
That um, so eventually we're going to have another person for marketing advertising Amanda she was my boss when I joined advertising world and she almost basically said what you just said to me is if you have.
01:05:35.98
Caroline Cunha
Um, beside you.
01:05:50.92
drnobodypodcast
Nothing to say if you just don't say anything then don't just leave it blank or don't even make a comment to it so meaning in in our in our agency world when we're looking at certain pieces at least for the medical people We're trying to make sure it's medically accurate, but not every time we're the ones creating that content. We're reviewing it.
01:06:04.12
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah.
01:06:10.90
drnobodypodcast
Make sure for his accuracy. So there's times where I'll get it and they're telling me hey look this over. Can you give us a comment or you know, whatever suggestion you have. So if I have nothing to say you know I won't say anything but if I do have something to say and I highlight it like to your point you better say something that's productive.
01:06:27.86
Caroline Cunha
Yes.
01:06:29.76
drnobodypodcast
Even if it's not the best answer at least it's it's flagged and you're showing that you're making an effort to change it and to help because that can actually stimulate someone to be like hey actually I was thinking that same thing I didn't like that part. Maybe I'll rewrite it or do something else or add something So it's amazing. How.
01:06:39.11
Caroline Cunha
Know again.
01:06:49.32
Caroline Cunha
Are.
01:06:49.73
drnobodypodcast
2 different mentors can say the same thing and and it's affected obviously my whole career of my 4 years in marketing advertising still in the infancy phase but definitely it's ah it's good advice in general for me. So.
01:07:01.54
Caroline Cunha
It is but you see Dr Nobody we've experiencing our job with a client where we brought a scientific solution and another doctor has told us you can do it. And this other doctor has not contributed to the solution and now you and I are stuck right? We can go forward because this other doctor who doesn't work for us. Um, ah is.
01:07:21.35
drnobodypodcast
Yep, and. Yes.
01:07:32.87
Caroline Cunha
Simply saying this doesn't work. This doesn't work. You know it's broken but it's not giving us a different way of thinking about the solution we're trying to bring to the table. So it's not productive.
01:07:43.92
drnobodypodcast
So yeah, it's never productive in any case in any situation. Yeah, that that ah that that story referring to that situation's current and is very frustrating. So yes, caroline and I have worked on that project together and it's ongoing but to be determined.
01:07:58.98
Caroline Cunha
Um, to be thisarmental.
01:08:03.59
drnobodypodcast
But yeah, um, so before we start wrapping it up I Want to ask you do you want to share or do you have anything else that you want to tell the audience the listeners something important. That's always left with you. In addition to what you've already said because to be honest, you've said so many good things that I I'd be amazed if you have more and and actually we would appreciate that because this has been so amazing of an interview.
01:08:23.92
Caroline Cunha
Is. Are.
01:08:34.62
drnobodypodcast
But I want to give you an opportunity to freestyle whatever you want to say right now.
01:08:37.52
Caroline Cunha
Our firstty is hard right? Oh my god I guess ah, there's so many things it's like first of all that I guess if you are thinking that you have imposster syndrome. You are not just by having the thought. You're not and obviously this is advice I give to myself all the time and work sometimes and other doesn't right if you're thinking I don't belong to this room I don't belong to this conversation. It's. You definitely, but do because you're being incredibly self consciousscious right? is that for me is the same parallel like if you think you're not going to be a good parent just by the thought of you not being a good parent. You're gonna be a good parent is the same story here right? If you think you impoor you definitely not.
01:09:23.77
drnobodypodcast
No.
01:09:31.54
Caroline Cunha
Um, but hey I'm imposter I feel like impulster every day when I'm talking in the meeting when I'm even though like sometimes I have people that are more senior than I and I know I know more about a specific subject than everyone in the room. And I get trumped I feel like I don't belong in room. It's it's always with you. Ah so that's the first thing how you get over this damn impostor Syndrome is allowing yourself to be vulnerable.
01:09:53.60
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yep.
01:10:02.77
drnobodypodcast
Yes, please.
01:10:09.16
Caroline Cunha
And it's a really crazy advice but you can only grow your confidence if you expose your yourself to your vulnerabilities because if you only do the things that you're confident. You're gonna go confident only in those.
01:10:09.77
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, so.
01:10:27.85
Caroline Cunha
4 or 5 things that you do, but you're always gonna have new things especially in advertising and marketing There is always a new problem. There is always a new curveball that you never saw before if you're not comfortable in being vulnerable. You're gonna always feel like impotor. So. Feel like imposster myself. But I'm gonna tell you I feel less of imposter today than I did 10 years ago because I allow myself to be vulnerable like I was at some point I have never worked in oncology and oncology was. Incredibly scary for me because my b a is in advertising and marketing and I'm very grateful for having wonderful partners like yourself that really dominate the the science and really understand the things I'm trying to do. But. You can't be with me all the time doctor nobody so I am in a room sometimes by myself and not dominating that science makes me feel vulnerable right? But I feel less vulnerable today than I do 10 years ago
01:11:35.45
drnobodypodcast
So.
01:11:40.45
Caroline Cunha
And that just happened because I allow myself to be vulnerable but back to the college story there for me is the biggest level of science I could possibly imagine at that time that I here comes the sp from College Caroline You gotta take it is like man I.
01:11:56.54
drnobodypodcast
And here.
01:11:57.39
Caroline Cunha
Yeah, not take it I am the wrong person to take it. But I also didn't feel like I could say no and it was 1 of my favorite scientific and brands that I ever worked on it I went in with it we won and it was really fun to work On. Um. And that really helped me overcome this fear of science. But if I haven't done that if I haven't allowed myself to be vulnerable I wouldn't find confidence to take an on another oncology pitch how to come So I think that's the main message. How to get over imposter syndrome embrace the vulnerability. That's the only way to grow your confidence.
01:12:42.69
drnobodypodcast
So I'm not trying to be tacky here but you blew my mind. That's that's like totally solid advice and it makes so much sense and it really does and I appreciate you really bringing this whole interview to that 1 line statement. So it's amazing.
01:12:51.68
Caroline Cunha
Um, yeah.
01:13:01.19
drnobodypodcast
Really hope the listeners really embrace that because imposter syndrome shows its its face way. Sorry it shows its face in different ways and everybody experience it differently and it's recognizing it and then doing what caroline said is.
01:13:13.15
Caroline Cunha
For sure.
01:13:19.53
drnobodypodcast
Racing the and the vulnerability about it and then you grow I I love it. It's so good I can't can't wait to put it on the website and we could talk about it more than yeah, definitely um so I don't I'm not sure how you feel about this but you know your so this is.
01:13:23.46
Caroline Cunha
Um, will be fine.
01:13:37.93
Caroline Cunha
Are.
01:13:38.36
drnobodypodcast
Unrelated to the interview now before we go. So I don't know if you want people to follow you or email you or whatever it's up to you on the website I did ask if you wanted to put your socials if you want people to reach out to you. If you don't it's fine I'll end this interview by just saying you know? Thank you for for your what you did Blavah. We you said you know and this interview will be on the website for people can see and whatever but it's up to you I you know I don't know how big this podcast is going to get maybe usually what people show is within.
01:14:08.54
Caroline Cunha
Um, should.
01:14:13.74
drnobodypodcast
Six months it doesn't really grow much and then it bursts because by that time Seo has activated for all your your podcast episodes and then people start listening like crazy. So I don't know if it's gonna be just 1 or 2 people listening a week or 1 or 2 hundred.
01:14:26.38
Caroline Cunha
Can you imagine that would be so much fun. Um I thought about it I don't mind people reaching out to me but I have a terrible social presence which I have to fix it I.
01:14:36.88
drnobodypodcast
I No don't worry I do too So I only have a social presence for the podcast in my personal life I have nothing I'm ah I'm a ghost I.
01:14:43.85
Caroline Cunha
So yeah I have a linkedin that I never engage I have a Instagram that I never post and that that's all like. I don't mind people reaching out to me. Maybe this is the incentive that I needed to create this is something that I keep thinking as ah, advertising professional I should have a better brand personal brand. That's what I do right? The um.
01:15:11.60
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, all I'll I'll just mention your linkedin yet I'll just say if you want to reach out to caroline and reach out to her on her Linkedin. Okay, so okay, okay.
01:15:16.60
Caroline Cunha
This okay. Okay, that's that that works that works because that's all the presents I have.
01:15:28.40
drnobodypodcast
It's totally fine. All right here we go. Ah, thank you caroline so much for your time you gave us so many great insights and you dropped definitely a bunch of knowledge bombs on us and we appreciate you sharing your story your experience. And definitely. We'll be reaching out to you again for our second part to talk about marketing advertising a little more depth because that's the goal. It's not just talk about our stories and these conditions but also talk about opportunities that other people can have you know irrelevant to their degrees they have because. There's so many jobs for marketing advertising too many I think that.
01:16:02.20
Caroline Cunha
Oh my god so many jobs 2 many jobs. We have many openings come work with us so we are hiring um, ah now I would love to and it's like i.
01:16:10.69
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, there you go here.
01:16:20.26
Caroline Cunha
Really geek out in talking about the fundamentals of advertising and marketing and case studies I I Absolutely love to appoint that some other people that work for me has told me many times that I should go teach in but you know I.
01:16:34.95
drnobodypodcast
There you go.
01:16:40.10
Caroline Cunha
Like in ah in a in in a college environment it just because I feel like Im toster I don't feel like I can go in and teach anybody. But I love geeking out about the books that I've read.
01:16:45.71
drnobodypodcast
M.
01:16:52.37
drnobodypodcast
Well I I know you've mentioned that and we will definitely be asking you on the side about those books websites. Anybody who you suggest that people should listen to or read about because I think that's an essential thing in careers in general is to. Expand be curious, learn everything that you've been talking about and it starts with that. Um, it doesn't matter if you take the physical book like us old school I like the physical I can't do ebooks That's weird for me I like to have a nice collection look like I'm actually smart. Um, but.
01:17:23.45
Caroline Cunha
Yes, that I meet you I like like hugging hugging my books.
01:17:30.57
drnobodypodcast
Each his own. Yeah I like the smell of of a new book that hasn't been opened yet. That's that's me Yeah, those are good times but I will reach out and we'll put that on the website but caroline again. Thank you so much. Um.
01:17:35.82
Caroline Cunha
Ah, me to me too. Yeah.
01:17:48.34
drnobodypodcast
Listeners can reach out to you through Linkedin correct and.
01:17:51.67
Caroline Cunha
That's right, you can return to me on linkedin my name is caroline kuna and you spell Queen c u n h a um in caroline the old fashioned way c a r o l I N e. Guia c u n h a.
01:18:09.68
drnobodypodcast
Excellent and that will be on the website too. Um listeners. Thank you so much for your time and I hope you gained a lot of insights today from caroline's experiences and that's the whole point. It's just learning from others. Nobody's like us that just succeed eventually. So. If we can do it? Definitely you can this is just a beginning for sure. Yeah, this is just the beginning of becoming someone? Um, but specifically the someone you always wanted to be I hope you enjoyed the episode because I sure did I definitely learned things.
01:18:29.56
Caroline Cunha
Um, for so for sure. Yeah.
01:18:44.83
drnobodypodcast
Ah, but please do give a like review and subscribe and visit. Ah the website Dr Nobodypodcast Dot Com where we turn nodies to somebodybodies talk to you soon done.