Dr. Nobody™ Podcast
Dr. Nobody™ Podcast
Episode 7 - Professional Journey
This week's episode looks into the Life of Melanie as she navigates the advertising world. Despite having a degree irrelevant to her career path, Melanie has capitalized on many opportunities presented to her that have helped her move up in her career at a fierce but confident pace. With her amazing work ethic and ambition to succeed, she has been a powerhouse in the advertising world.
00:00.00
drnobodypodcast
Welcome everybody to the Dr. nobody podcast today we have 1 of my closest friends. A best friend Melanie who's going to talk about her professional career Melanie why don't you say hi to our listeners.
00:12.40
Melanie
Um, hi nobodies fellow nobodies. So good to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
00:18.87
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, Welcome Um, before we get into it. Can you give our listeners a little bit of your bio a little bit of your background just just set us up.
00:27.53
Melanie
Yeah, absolutely so I'm from long island new york um, grew up there. You know I think I moved to new jersey by the time I was around 18 I went there for college. Um, and I for the most of my life I was a competitive swimmer. So a lot of my personality is really formed I guess in the pool right? So that's probably why I'm such a weirdo I think it's a very like singular so a singular sport so you're very very individual sport. Um, and yeah I kind of found myself in my career through a haphazard way. But I originally began in social media writing ad copy for supplements women's health supplements and also wine and spirits. So I got to know a little bit about. Um, these very 2 different worlds the world of wine and spirits just sort of flashy and fun and then the world of um health supplements which is generally just health and wellness. So um, my job predominantly revolved around you know making complex. Um, sentences complex ads into you know characters of 1 hundred and forty you know characters long. So um I found that I had a bit of a knack at distilling. You know, rather difficult information into bite-size snackable pieces. Um, so I took that with me throughout my career so far but it's landed me at gray new york where I work as a brand strategist right now for pharmaceutical brands.
02:11.97
drnobodypodcast
So Melanie um I need you to explain what a brand strategist is as if I was a 5 year old that's fair so
02:16.37
Melanie
Um I need someone to explain it to me as well. It is it is everything I think in in the agency I mean it is. You truly never have the same day twice. You come in thinking you're going to be working on positioning statements. You know, helping brands understand a space that they can own and operate in a landscape and then you can and on another given day you can. You know, be conducting interviews finding out if um, your brand's messages need to be updated or need to be tweaked and and if you do have updates presenting. You know to present to your listeners or to your audience. You know you essentially have to refine and optimize them. So. Brand strategy is is essentially just to boil it down I would say it is. Sorry carlos is construction is construction I'm so sorry. Um Brand strategy is um.
03:19.83
drnobodypodcast
I Know it's okay I could I could take it out. It's okay.
03:33.81
Melanie
Finding the direction that your company should take but it's rooted in research. So you're doing a lot of research on a day-to-day basis. You're either. You know you have to be it. It forces you to really be up-to-d date with the news. Whatever's happening in the news upto-d date with trends. You know if you so in in my case for pharmaceuticals if you're seeing you know, um in the world of oncology if you're seeing that combination treatments are the new you know trend and and that's what doctors are are constantly talking about well then you sort of have to fit that within your own. Um.
04:13.25
drnobodypodcast
Um.
04:13.35
Melanie
Brand Strategy Essentially it. But again it is different on a day to day basis I will tell you that and it's hard to explain it really is a bit.. It's a bit of an a you know, ah ephemeral sort of um you know it lives in a different strata I would say. Than than other than other jobs out there.
04:34.53
drnobodypodcast
Well just it sounds interesting because you get to do different things and if people like me who like to do new things every time and learn new things. It feels like that's ah, a fitting position for someone who's looking into challenging themselves on a daily basis is that fair to say.
04:52.62
Melanie
That's fair to say yeah it is a highly challenging job I think 1 of the most challenging aspects is that you know not only are your clients looking at you to come up with a plan for them and it's typically for a problem that they themselves have been trying to solve for a long time.
05:07.10
drnobodypodcast
So.
05:09.25
Melanie
But your you know your your coworkers and your team is also looking at you to to give them the North star. So it's a lot of pressure and that's why you know the the better rooted. You know your. Ah, direction is in research the more confident that you'll be in your job.
05:34.97
drnobodypodcast
Now I have a question I forgot to ask I just want to take 1 step well actually a couple steps back at this point how did you discover copywriting? you know, initially like how do you find a job like that because I didn't really know about copywriting until probably when I started this industry and realized. Ah, copywriting is not copying somebody else's work but it's actually a position that you write things for brands or companies just like when we see commercials or something written on the bus that's copyright how did you find it. So.
05:56.19
Melanie
Um.
06:08.84
Melanie
that's exactly right? yeah that's exactly right so again like I I graduated college and I had about I don't know 7 months or so trying to find the job that is quote right? for me quote right. Um, and I and I did find myself at this boutique beat pr agency where I was writing social media content and I myself didn't really understand that I was turning into a copywriter. But um I Remember. You know that was the 1 part of my job that actually started becoming easy to becoming easy to me I knew that I had a strength in riding I knew that I had um I just I had a knack for it and. Shortly after that role I would say I was in that role for about 3 and a half years or so just understanding the world of social media at the time that I had started. It was burgeoning right? like it was no 1 really understood what was happening in the world of of social media advertising. It was really coming onto the scene by the time that I was. You know in that role so I felt like it was a good foundation for me to understand the world of advertising but also to strengthen my copy skills once I left that position I joined in as a content. Ah strategist actually a content manager essentially is a glorified. Copywriting role where you are the voice and the personality of your 1 brand so I was working for an e-commerce brand at the time and I was writing all of their all of their copy think about every single word on ah on a brand's website. Ah, came from 1 person that came from me and there had to be some strategy you know involved in that that that essentially helped the you know the gave the the president you know, confidence in in actually putting x y and z on on the page so it was a lot of you know I had to learn about. Search engine optimization I had to learn about just different content strategies that were out there at the time and I'm sure you know having left that world about 5 years ago or so I'm sure there are so many more now that I'm not aware of but um, you know blog content writing there. There is a.
08:19.18
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
08:27.10
Melanie
Ah, method to the madness and I think that's you know that's a skill that really needed to be honed but thankfully for me when I was in that role content creation was was just easier to to me than than to others.
08:42.25
drnobodypodcast
How translatable was everything you did in life like high school college to these positions you have now or even to your current role. Like was ah, did you do a bachelor's or associates in copywriting or advertising or anything. Oh boy.
08:59.79
Melanie
Not at all, not at all what I was in college I First I had about 2 years in the sciences deep in the sciences because I thought that I was going to be a physician's assistant. And I quickly learned that chemistry just did not make sense and in order to save my gpa I started leaning towards these subjects that were an easy a for me easy a no matter what no matter what I just loved them. It came easy to me so I actually was studying. Spanish and italian and economics I just had ah in more of a business mindset and in my head you know I remember being a sophomore and I always say to people would ask me? Well, what do you want to? What do you want to be right when when you grow up. What do you want to when you graduate.
09:48.39
drnobodypodcast
Um, yeah, my next question. Ah.
09:54.35
Melanie
I said well I'm going to work in international business because I'm taking economics that I'm studying Spanish and I'm studying Italian but really, what is international business right? I mean I didn't even know that the whole world at the time was you know globalization was already here. It was here for a while and.
09:55.72
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, so.
10:13.46
Melanie
Really any aspect of of the corporate world that you're touching is international businesses doesn't require you to really speak Spanish or speak Italian on a daily basis. Although that's a plus right? a plus but no honestly.
10:24.81
drnobodypodcast
No.
10:31.22
Melanie
College I would say college I got the degree you know and and I learned I learned what hard work was all about but I couldn't really ah, tell you that I've applied those skills. Um, you know in in my in my life today. Um. And with but you know with regards to subject matter. But of course you know with regards to working hard and teamwork and working with others in cooperation. Those are skills that those are those soft skills that you pick up along the way. So um I wish I could say do to nobodyy I really wish I could say that I was. You know that that I knew that I had this north star that I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up but I'm figuring that out on a day-to-day basis. Honestly I'm I'm just I'm finding my strengths as i. Excel in my career as I move forward in my career and I'm I'm trying to become the um, the employee or the professional that advocates for herself on a daily basis and that really finds her niche. And and and but and vocalizes it because I think that's the personality trait that makes the best type of employee the best type of worker someone who who really starts you know, finding what they like and starts going after it I think it makes everybody involved.
11:54.19
drnobodypodcast
M.
12:03.36
Melanie
You know from the boss to the coworkers I think that makes everybody involved like happier working with you.
12:07.98
drnobodypodcast
So yeah, that was very elegantly put definitely better than how I explain it in my episodes. But now I I think the point there really to take home for the listeners is.
12:14.70
Melanie
Specific.
12:23.82
drnobodypodcast
It doesn't really matter what you do in College. It's how you apply what you want to do in your life and how hard you work for it. So yeah I mean my path is totally different I did science I ended up in a science role. But there's people like you who didn't do anything related to their current position and at the top of their game or. Soon to be you know, even bigger and better and batter than you ever been and it's just you know I've known you for now 3 4 years and you you keep climbing and you keep getting higher and it's just amazing to know that background of yours that you you know you don't have these like terminal degrees but you're doing work that.
12:44.60
Melanie
Um, yeah.
13:02.68
drnobodypodcast
Is equivalent to people with terminal degrees. So it doesn't matter what you have It's how hard you work and how badly you want it and I really want to make sure the listeners here you know, understand that hear it from other people than me because it's just really comes down to do you want it? Do you? How bad? do you want it? so.
13:18.60
Melanie
I Would also piggyback on that and say that you know this this question. What do you want to be when you grow up is so invasive to be quite honest, right? It really is invasive like even like I'm someone who did study languages right? So when you say. What do you want to be when you grew up, you're you're putting your identity in your job and that's not that is something that I've wanted to veer away from throughout my career I'm way more than what I you know what? what I am as ah as a professional I'm way more than that. It's what I do Yes, It's what I do and it's what earns me money and it affords me all sorts of things that's great, but it's not.. It's not who I am um and I think that that opens up the door to be flexible in your career and to really explore other options and. You know if I wanted to veer away from copywriting and go into strategy. Well I'm going to do it right? And if I want to veer away from social media and go into something else. Well I'm going to do it. It doesn't you know, having that flexibility is is so necessary so that you're not boxed into 1 particular thing we we. You know or I would say we as in Brad strategists and Pharma we look at there's a there's a alarming statistic out there about you know Hc Excuse me Health Care practitioners being so miserable in their jobs and being. And and the suicide rate is is up white up in those and that sort of profession. It's a thankless profession on many in many cases and a lot of times you know, ah and I'm only picking 1 profession right now a lot of times physicians get into their field because it's what they've.
15:13.46
drnobodypodcast
And.
15:13.91
Melanie
Been told to do and it's not necessarily what makes them feel fulfilled So It's um, it's just important to me to have that distinct distinction where you know this is what I do but it's not who I am and what I want to be when I grow up is someone who's you know much more than.. What I do like I want to be kind I Want to be adventurous I Want to be curious like that's what I want to be when I grow up.
15:34.18
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, know that wow, that's really good and that's perfect because even when we were younger, you know, thinking about those in grade school where they tell you? What do you want to be when you grow up and you gotta. Niche yourself into like I want to be a firefighter or a doctor or stuff like that. But these are roles like you and I have right now that are beyond those type of cliche positions and I think people don't understand that and the and the listeners are starting to learn that seeing other positions that they've never heard of. Like there's something beyond what you the norm and I you know I guess saying to what you were talking about like identifying yourself as a doctor or a police officer or a translator like no, there's things beyond those things that you can do and it's up to you to find it.
16:22.83
Melanie
Um, you know.
16:27.22
drnobodypodcast
And I guess then that brings up to my next question in that has anybody been there for you that has mentored you throughout your journey or guided you or advised you to like hey Melanie do this hey I suggest you going this way. Anybody important that's done that for you. Thank.
16:42.79
Melanie
Quite honestly, no 1 in particular, not 1 singular person in particular I've had I've had impactful people throughout my career people who have just made me feel comfortable and confident in what I was doing at that particular role and but I don't Think. Could single out 1 person I think that my background in athletics um is is sort of the guiding force or the impetus to me you know working so hard because as a swimmer again I mentioned before swimming is a very. Isolated sport for the most part, you're just looking down at a black line right? and going back and forth for hours at a time variable variable I Don't recommend.
17:27.60
drnobodypodcast
Sounds boring. They should put like a little Tv under there where you can follow and at least watch the news or a video or Netflix there.
17:36.52
Melanie
Um, yeah, yeah, something right? They probably had that now nowadays. But fact then they had nothing anyway, um, you really, you're you It's not a team sport. It's not it's it's just you on the blocks. And so you're really swimming for yourself and against the clock and also um for the coach right for the coach you you want to get that Encouragement. So I think in every role that I've had I've just wanted to um I've wanted to. To make you know a manager feel like they're that that I'm doing a good job right? I sort of wanted their um their kudos and their okay you know, great job and and that's motivating to me I just I like performing well for the quote unquote.
18:16.81
drnobodypodcast
And.
18:31.37
Melanie
Coach in in in my career in my field. Um, but I do have like a few people in mind that I've um looked up to definitely with regards to you know their I guess how they handle stress. Um, it's important to me, you know to to to sort of side up next to someone who's who's able to handle the pressure and handle the stress with Grace especially in a field like what you know we're in this field of client services where it's just a lot of stress and. Some of these questions that were asked. Are yeah, we're supposed to answer on our feet and sometimes you just don't know the answer. But yeah for a few people that I have in mind it is. It's ah it's a master class of ah of you know, just answering like the difficult questions and just.
19:14.89
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, so.
19:29.30
Melanie
You know, just having the sweat roll off their back if that's if that's expression is that being? Yeah yeah, just just like keeping calm under pressure because I and I know I wrote it in my bio I'm a very neurotic person.
19:33.90
drnobodypodcast
Yeah I don't know you just made it into 1
19:46.74
drnobodypodcast
Um.
19:48.29
Melanie
I Get stressed out really easily. Um and so I appreciate when someone else can really keep their cool under pressure.
19:57.30
drnobodypodcast
Sorry the dogs barking upstairs and that I'm hearing it in my and my mic. um no yeah um I have things that I'm flowing with and you're answering questions I have I have like 30 questions here.
20:01.69
Melanie
Um, I feel like I'm talking about nonsense.
20:14.70
drnobodypodcast
And you've answered already 10 So that's why you see me go like this I'm scrolling through it because you're already. You're fine. It's fine. You're good all right? Um, so in terms I want you to think in these next couple questions in terms of your career and what it's done in your life as well. Um, what's 1 like.
20:16.54
Melanie
Okay, so okay.
20:33.15
drnobodypodcast
Valuable insight you've gained throughout your career or your life that you would want to share with someone or our listeners that really would help them. Yeah like a hot tip.
20:40.33
Melanie
Like ah like a hot tip. No um, 1 that I have been putting into practice this last year especially um, especially since now I'm you know I'm married There's someone else involved in my life. Um. My hot tip would be to own your calendar own your calendar like it's your lifeline because it really is that ah on a day-to-day basis like your calendar is is your time and if you have a mountain of tasks to get through. But. You have you know? ah coworkers left and right asking for your time to talk about the work that needs to be done that work that you need to do it is just so important to own your calendar and to really speak up for yourself in that way and say. No I have a block to get you know 1 deliverable finished and it is my priority for the day and I will speak with you. You know tomorrow or another time. So um, but not only during the day during the you know the nine to 5 or in my case I work. Work east coast hours on the west coast. So I work 6 to about 3 30 or four. It's really important to also make sure that you are done for the day at a certain time so own the calendar own it in the beginning own it at the end when you clock out of work. You know whether it's.
21:58.84
drnobodypodcast
Oof.
22:06.63
drnobodypodcast
M.
22:15.89
Melanie
Physically or metaphorically you're done. You should be done for that day and you pick it back up the next 1
22:21.10
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, nice. Yeah I think that's really important, especially separating your work life and your personal life because it your work life especially now virtually does creep into your current life and it it stinks. Ah, it just becomes harder and harder and people.
22:26.86
Melanie
Yeah.
22:40.51
drnobodypodcast
They have their own personalized but they also have their jobs where they're also stressed and they need to get things done like to your point deliverables which then stem on you and then they put pressure on you and it's a vicious circle. So yeah I think that's a really really great insight. So.
22:46.47
Melanie
Are.
22:54.29
Melanie
I think I and and I look I'm I'm saying this without without any you know research whatsoever but part of my feeling with this last or approximately 2 years or so with this hybrid style of working and and and. The listeners I work entirely remote I work entirely remote I work in California for a role that's actually based in New York city and you know it it is ah ah it is pretty isolating experience in many respects because you're not in the office and you know in our case. Dr. Nobody and I we were in the office every single day chatting it up having a good time having banter but also doing the work and enjoying a enjoying you know the the the teamwork and the partnership that we had but that doesn't.
23:33.52
drnobodypodcast
Oh yeah.
23:43.40
drnobodypodcast
Oh.
23:47.21
Melanie
But it's not happening right now in this hybrid style of working and now being hybrid or in my case being remote is amazing in so many ways and I I honestly would prefer it over working in the office again. But you know I think. There is this vacancy involved where I think that's why people are putting so many meetings on the calendar because they just miss chatting right? They miss talking to their friends and interacting where you would be able to do that if you were just sitting next to someone but now you really can't.
24:15.90
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
24:24.48
Melanie
Unless you're in a meeting together. So it's it's a it's a double-edged sword I Guess it's you know you have own the calendar but at the same time understand that meetings and collaboration are so important to just your mental health and just.
24:29.34
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
24:41.58
Melanie
You know, also getting the work done but also just having that socialization for a few hours of the day.
24:46.98
drnobodypodcast
Yeah now I totally agree and I 1 question I have for you is and I guess we already know the answer to this. How important is a partnership to you in your position because I know personally and so this is kind of a biased question. I personally know that we were partners as a medical and brand strategist partnership we had at our old agencies. But now it's a little different. Um I've been a different agency and partnership was and is not the same as what you had what we had a couple years back. How important was partnership then and how important partnership is now and I'm relating that because of covid because now we're virtual versus in person.
25:30.32
Melanie
Um, right? right? I am I mean so I think first and foremost it's really important that you're set up with the right individual because and I was just blessed I mean we were just lucky. Like to find someone who is to find the match right? like this partnership. Not's talk about it like ah like an actual relationship but it really is like you know there's this relationship that you foster in and if you if you're with the wrong person I mean it's just gonna make everything what way more challenging but but in in in our case.
25:59.60
drnobodypodcast
Mm.
26:09.26
Melanie
You were the ying to my yang and we were able to you know, ah compliment each other's strengths and really you know, raise each other up when when they had weaknesses so there was such a knowledge share that went back and forth with us in that first year and you know some some lessons that. I mean I've taken with me like 2 years later um I think that you know look every agency is going to operate differently I think there's a beauty in the partnership um style of working when it comes to strategy because. Because of all the pressure that is involved in this role because you need you know, not only you need to root it in research, but you really just have to walk in the room with absolute confidence on what you're about to present and having someone there who is you know fully invested because the team could be invested your account team could be invested your. You know your project manager but it's only gonna go so far at the end of the day. Their responsibility is to the client but your responsibility is to the work so you know us being coupled together was you know it was it was encouragement like you just knew that the other person was gonna. Be there if something went wrong or or or even just chime in if there was empty space in ah in a presentation I will say in the last 2 years you know since we haven't been working together every day it has. Forced me, you know in so many words it has just absolutely forced me to try to get a handle on science in general I'm a brand strategist I don't have to focus so much on the science but without that piece right? if I'm not working if I'm not fully understanding it then I don't really. Fully understand what I'm doing you know on the brand strategy side. So. It's really forced me to to take it in and learn. It. Yes at my own pace I'm not going to pick it up as as easily as a medical strategist would but um, it has it has pushed me to becoming a more well-rounded. Brand strategist now. With that said I'm hoping that someone could be paired back up with me because now I'm ready again I think I've I've I've ah pushed myself enough to you know to just. Pick it up right? But now I'm ready to have a partnership again. So and look I I have to say I'm just jealous of the way that you know it seems like creatives are constantly partnering with each other It seems like there are 2 to 3 to four account people in a room at the same time.
28:46.50
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
28:53.71
Melanie
Why should there only be 1 brand strategist. Why should there only be 1 medical strategist. Especially if we are the ones who have to speak up. You know on the direction of the agency. It's just it's it's it's not fair in my book. So bring back the partnership. But.
29:00.76
drnobodypodcast
Um.
29:06.64
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, you could start a movement you can make sure it's hats. You know do your thing I'll support you I definitely I definitely support that 1 1 piece of advice I got recently um, with someone who will be on the podcast or.
29:13.65
Melanie
Yeah.
29:26.28
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, they they told me to find someone at whatever you're doing So we you know our strategy roles were put on different brands so it could be ah multiple types of drugs multiple consumer brands. Whatever it is so each 1 has a different team. So. Advice that he gave me was find someone you click with and partner with them. No matter who it is if it's an account person who's irrelevant to your partnership so they just help with moving things along pushing some money talking to the client but it's good to find a partner in in any position you find in any job.
29:45.59
Melanie
Um.
30:03.38
drnobodypodcast
Ah, you can form a relationship that way you can commiserate together. You can work together. You can lean on each other. Um and I think that's an important aspect and why you know I appreciate it and I know you appreciate our partnership. It went Beyond just our work it went you know, friendship and Beyond. Um. And still is I mean we're still friends really close friends. We talk to each other frequently and I feel like our partnership is still growing and I think people need to find and understand that not just an agency world partnerships exist outside to help them. You know.
30:24.27
Melanie
Yeah, is his.
30:34.43
Melanie
Oh yeah, yeah I completely agree and it it is ah it's a it's a difficult subject to really talk about because I you know you hear and you read about how you know there are pieces out there. You can just do a Google search right. Treat your co-workers as co-workers and not as Bosom buddies right? Like not as best friends and that's that's tough. That's really like compartmentalizing and that's really hiding like a huge piece of of you like in a in a massive part of your life right? How can I not.
30:56.64
drnobodypodcast
Me.
31:12.63
Melanie
How could I not be myself and really speak freely I think you know with a coworker if I'm spending so much time and in our case, we were spending nine hours a day at minimum together I mean if I only treated you as a coworker then perhaps our work wouldn't have been as as.
31:17.70
drnobodypodcast
Mm.
31:23.70
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
31:32.62
Melanie
Strong I guess or and it certainly wouldn't have had as much fun right? We definitely wouldn't have by the way I mean we had sorry for the listeners but we had so much fun like there was not 1 in that whole year not 1 sunday
31:35.71
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, absolutely.
31:51.63
Melanie
That I dreaded not 1 and I instead I had an hour and a half commute you know in and out of the city I mean I was excited to go to work every single day because I knew even if it was tough I knew I was going to have a good time. And knew I was going to feel fulfilled at the end of the day and and that's they made it worth it right? It just made it worth this. Yeah.
32:14.28
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, absolutely that that commute sucks too so being able to talk and people watch and experience weird things in New York city trains um yeah that that was definitely fun and helped a lot.
32:29.76
Melanie
Um, yes, definitely um.
32:33.41
drnobodypodcast
But no, they they need to see that we're human too. So we it work is work but there's also beyond work and and in terms of being human too. So I'm gonna ask you the question feel free to answer it the way you want. Okay Melanie Can you tell me.
32:45.41
Melanie
Okay.
32:51.17
drnobodypodcast
Your best moments in your life or your career doesn't matter and your worst moments in your life and career just 1 of each.
32:57.76
Melanie
Um, okay, okay, best moment of my career so far I was working on a role as ah as a brand strategist for about almost 2 years I think but I was operating at a level that was a lot higher than. Level that ah my title had set and then also certainly the level I was I was being paid and I had conversation after conversation with my superiors and and and our bosses and everybody was rooting for me. Everybody was on board for me to get a promotion and also a raise but what I kept. Encountering was oh but we just don't have money right Now. Ah the agency just doesn't have money right now and you know I could see it I could see some writing on the wall I could see that you know we we had just finished with a series of layoffs for people and. And because the agency really was struggling at the time but but I mean here I was being paid as it as a junior but and and title of a junior but being flying back and forth to London and helping to helping to facilitate. You know, major workshops with very very senior clients in in billion dollar companies. So It just didn't make any sense. Um, and I I you know talk about advocating for yourself. I had to advocate for myself I had to find a way.
34:18.65
drnobodypodcast
Oh.
34:31.20
Melanie
You know to find a livable salary right? and to to you know to really understand I mean like when push came to shove if I if another company gives me an offer you know will. Will that be enough for me to to take me away from this position like will a will they pay me what I would believe I'm I'm worth and then B you know? ah like what will happen with my with this company. What will happen with the company that I that I actually did grow to love at the end of the day.
34:53.32
drnobodypodcast
Um.
35:06.19
Melanie
Um I got a job offer for double my salary and it was It was the biggest shock and the absolute biggest shock in the world. Um, and and and by the way to all the listeners here I mean I.
35:08.94
drnobodypodcast
Oh.
35:23.56
Melanie
Struggled with making the decision even though they doubled my salary and gave me this title that I couldn't you know and the title that I knew that I was you know worth. But at the same time struggled accepting. Um I I So I struggle.
35:30.90
drnobodypodcast
Um. Why did you struggle.
35:40.10
Melanie
Struggled because I had this conversation with myself like you know what? if this is gonna be too much for me what if like are they paying me too much is what I remember asking myself are they paying me too much which is.
35:51.58
drnobodypodcast
So yeah, yeah.
35:58.80
Melanie
The most like misguided and just the craziest you know phrase like to to even to run through your head but that imposter syndrome is real folks like it is real and you really, especially if you've been struggling at a position where.
36:07.40
drnobodypodcast
So yes, yeah.
36:17.60
Melanie
You know you're not making that much money you don't have the sexiest title and you're doing grunt work every day in and day out all of a sudden you know you're handed this blessing right? You're given this opportunity to really shine and and they're going to pay you for what you're worth. I mean you're faced with a question of like am I actually worth this so I had to get through that. Um, and I I took about a month I think I took about a month to really accept my decision to leave the company and and to make that decision and to make it known you know for everybody and. And then I had to take a month to actually prepare for the new role. So I don't know I think that may be like the best and the worst moment I think in my career because it was it. It is sort of you know it is sort of embarrassing to admit that I was so upset I think to tune. Paid double and and I almost backed out of it. You know and and so just to be in that quandary of not believing in yourself and not thinking at not thinking you know you are worth what that number and then some um you know it's it's a sobering. I think realization just makes you you makes you question I'm glad I took the role I'm glad yeah But yeah, it was it was difficult. It was a difficult journey for me.
37:36.49
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing and that's probably an incredible story of being both worse and best. Yeah I don't think I could come up with something like that. But you know good for you but a couple points that you made.
37:50.86
Melanie
That.
37:57.30
drnobodypodcast
Um, we do talk about imposter syndrome and you know I also experienced imposter syndrome but not in the same way you did definitely as a graduate student making less than 20000 a year to jumping you know, doubling and tripling your salary as you move up. It is ah it is a big shock and I felt the same way. But um. Ah me I was just like yeah let's do this, you know? but I think to going back to the original question about your your humble beginnings and your unrelated background to where you are now. Do you think those that that mentality also played a role because I I feel. Listening to what you're saying is you're your're feeling that you're not, you shouldn't get paid double is originating from the fact that you didn't have the set background that everyone tells you you should have and then all this moneys with this title now is like whoa. That's not what I've been.
38:46.19
Melanie
Is it.
38:54.34
drnobodypodcast
And told I should deserve right? Do you think that played a role.
38:56.60
Melanie
Absolutely I think that such a loaded question. But I I do think that you know not not having the experience that other colleagues had. You know and not being able to speak so eloquently at my role or even explain you know what? my role is like step 1 I think that that contributed to you know my imposter syndrome. Um, you know sometimes I've I've asked myself throughout this career would it have been easier if I just.
39:18.63
drnobodypodcast
Okay.
39:32.66
Melanie
Studied marketing in college and and or perhaps gone to school to get my mba and and then you think well, there's this such a thing as school of experience you know, especially a my role So it's yeah, it's tough I mean.
39:33.60
drnobodypodcast
M.
39:50.47
Melanie
Jeez I'd love to I'd love to talk about imposster syndrome syndrome all day and I do think it's something that you know I like hearing from you Dr. Nobody I like hearing from you that you've struggled with that as well because I do think that it's a sometimes I think it's it's ah like a women like a gender specific almost like a women first. Issue where we feel like we have to be a little bit. You know like if we're too aggressive. We're labeled aggressive right? Like if we're like if we're too vocal. We're labeled bossy and and and just all these pejorative words. But um, you know I do think that women have. Have a very difficult time advocating for themselves feeling secure. And yeah, um, secure and confident in the role that they've been given. Yeah I think a lot of times we as women wait until we have ticked every single box off for that next title. Before we get that title whereas at least in my experience and a bit of what I've read you know men will be more um, adventurous in their career jumps where they say okay, you know I'll figure it out as I go and that's it.
41:05.96
drnobodypodcast
Ah, yeah.
41:07.67
Melanie
You know, not to put you in a box if your experience you know is indeed different. But um I think I think it's I I would say you know if I were to mentor somebody I would say that that these are feelings at least for for women that have. Definitely bubbled up in my experience probably will continue to bubble up in my experience and it's on me to navigate them and to to recognize that those feelings are there but to also recognize that you know without taking a leap I'm not going to go anywhere.
41:41.28
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's really incredible to share and as someone who is totally oblivious to that to those issues because you know as a guy it doesn't ring on me the same way as a woman but I mean oblivious in the sense of.
41:48.31
Melanie
Pivot.
41:59.30
drnobodypodcast
I don't get why that's an issue. Why does it have to be an issue for women. Why are we still? Why are we still at that point you know I I always still consider. You know I have plenty of women bosses I've had more women friends than guy friends. That's why when with like the the. You know, feminist movement and all all these different things I'm like oh I didn't or even like the pay pay grade difference I mean you personally you have totally changed the way I Negotiate salary because you are way more intense and so aggressive in negotiating for salaries.
42:22.76
Melanie
The.
42:37.28
drnobodypodcast
And I think when we moved to our different our at gray. You negotiated our salaries for us and I was just like oh she got me extra bucks that I I didn't even plan for and that was like an inspiration to me, you know to to negotiate not because whoa. She's a woman. She's just negotiated. No.
42:41.27
Melanie
Um, okay, you know.
42:57.27
drnobodypodcast
As a person you have skills that I didn't have and I learned it and that's how I you know negotiate moving forward and how I give advice to people negotiating so you know you're definitely, you've definitely learned things on the way and you know I love that um I'm probably going to butche it. But the way you said.
43:03.20
Melanie
Um, yeah, um.
43:16.91
drnobodypodcast
You learn things on the job. You know there's just things that you just can't train in school or or word of mouth. You just have to experience it and I think roles like yours is is a key thing like that you you just have to learn it on the fly.
43:24.28
Melanie
Yeah, yeah.
43:29.57
Melanie
Yeah, no, definitely it. You know it's it's really easy to point the finger and to say oh my. My my boss is not paying me enough and and that very well could be the case or like the company just has low salaries or. You know the company I've been at this role for 3 4 years and I haven't I have no idea where I'm going to go with this next I don't know what my next step is but people think of how busy you are and the thing of your boss. Why would he or she not be just as busy if not more. They are their prerogative is going to be themselves. It's just human nature. It's going to be themselves. They have to think out for number 1 especially if they have families. They have to just think about themselves your responsibility is your career your own responsibility. For your own career so you need to advocate for that and you need to ask for what you want and they could always say no and that's okay, they have a right to. They can say no, you also have a right to leave you right? you you do you have a right to leave or you have a right.
44:39.62
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, that's right.
44:46.29
Melanie
To figure out something else that that is gonna make you you feel good about staying so something something else to sweeten the pot but also just remember like that doesn't come with a ton of hard work. Right? There is There is in many instances. Ah you know the need to prove yourself and the need to really you know work hard and and put your head down and and deal with it for a little bit until until you feel in your heart. It's the right time to to ask.
45:23.43
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it doesn't mean that you know you think you should be paid a certain way but you're not putting the work in then you go and ask and embarrass yourself because that's rough and also it doesn't mean that just because in a year you don't you feel like you should be be getting paid more.
45:23.95
Melanie
As for what you want? Yeah yeah.
45:43.24
drnobodypodcast
And you're like you know what I'm going to move to a different job and to be fair that is the that is the most efficient way to get paid more but just think about you're starting from ground zero again and again, you're making you have to make new friends new relationships. You have to get to know the the work frame of whatever you're doing.
45:51.92
Melanie
Yes.
46:00.60
Melanie
Yes.
46:02.12
drnobodypodcast
So It's easier to stay and work harder and get promoted Naturally organically um, and I think that's part of negotiating and you know definitely know people. We know people that got raises and promotions that definitely don't deserve it within short periods of time and. Baffles us, but it is what it is and you know that just that inspires me to just be like you know what I got to work harder I got to get recognized that way the same way if they can do it then I can do it. You know things like that. Um not to be jealous but to be motivating in ah in a different sense.
46:29.49
Melanie
Um, this is. Oh Definitely yeah to be to be motivated for sure and you know I guess at the end of the day we don't really understand what's going on you know on their side of things we we don't know like did they blackmail the boss to actually get more money. But.
46:47.24
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
46:53.46
Melanie
No I mean joking aside like it's it of course is not even only about the money. Um, we're talking about situations where you truly do feel like you're being underpaid or honestly like you can't even make you know, ah you can't make ends meet I mean there. That's. Nobody should be experiencing that you really have to fight for for something better fight for yourself.
47:16.36
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, Absolutely so um, like we're gonna start wrapping up the interview.. There's a ah question I always ask everybody and I want to keep it going. You've already kind of mentioned 1 so you can use your 1 but what are 5 up to 5 essential things you think. Is is necessary to succeed in your in life or career and it could be related to you or something you've heard so you know it doesn't have to be just you.
47:44.41
Melanie
5 things that are necessary to succeed in life or career just just to success in general good questions. Um, this is good.
47:48.60
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:58.60
drnobodypodcast
You could ah you could off off script. You could just think of things that you just do your personal like what do you? you know what drives you things like it is a loaded question is the hardest question I give people but it is the most important question in terms of the theme of the podcast.
48:07.21
Melanie
You know.
48:14.75
Melanie
I happen to like to feel productive and I really just do. There's a there's this productivity aspect and there's also this fulfillment aspect I'm not sure if after I turn my computer off I'm not sure if I feel necessarily fulfilled because I think that's a deeper. You know sentiment and that it really just comes from my core like I feel fulfilled when I'm you know when I when I am volunteering at an animal shelter I feel fulfilled when I'm you know, being generous with a tick. That's when I feel fulfilled but there there is this feeling of. You know productivity that I that drives me I like I like to check things off a list I just do so for me I think that's like probably my First. Ah, my first you know tip for success I think you get but but.
49:05.83
drnobodypodcast
Be productive.
49:10.37
Melanie
Feel like what can you do to feel productive because there's so many things like some people can never get their inbox to zero. Some people can never finish every single item on their list but write down literally everything that you've done in the day and you'll see that even if the big things may have not been finished. Okay, did you tackle the little things within them right? like break it down to the minute you know, ah steps involved to finishing a deliverable. Did you do the first part. Did you write that first sentence. Okay, great. Check that off because it it'll help. Build momentum and it'll help you feel a little bit more productive. That's just for me I have to feel productive at the end of the day in order to feel like it was. It was a good 1 in order to feel like I was worth that you know x amount that I was paid that day the other bit of advice I would say is and this I think goes for anything. Is write or do or make a bad draft and I don't know if I'm you know if this is um if I'm a minority or if and I'm a majority but. I have paralysis of decision making and paralysis of thought on a daily basis where you know I'm given a deliverable and it seems so big and so complex and I just don't even know where to begin right? We've all been there with our like yeah.
50:39.50
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, yeah.
50:42.30
Melanie
Like in a literal sense the pen like ah you know, pressed up against the page and you don't even know how to start just write a bad draft. Do ah like make it if it's a powerpoint to make a bad 1 make it make it crap like just. Make it right? Just throw things on the page tomorrow. You can come back and refine it or if there is no tomorrow right? if you need to get something done in an instant and for whatever reason your boss needs to see it in a few hours at least he or she will have something to react to It's so important. It's so important. You can't come to the table with a blank page because then there's nothing to react to the boss can't really give you any feedback whatsoever you don't know where to go with it so write a bad draft That's that's essential to getting anything done I think and to really build up your confidence.
51:34.84
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
51:37.91
Melanie
That third one is going to be probably tricky. Um, oh good.
51:40.18
drnobodypodcast
Well, your third one could be your calendar. That's why I said you can remove 1 because your calendar advice was really really good I mean personally for me that that helps enormously, especially when you're married have kids and work and.
51:53.60
Melanie
Yeah, yeah.
51:57.55
drnobodypodcast
Podcasts you know it's really helps with scheduling so I helped you out there. It's a I also said up to 5 So if you feel like those 3 are your strongest I'm sure my listeners would appreciate it.
52:00.37
Melanie
Thank you so much I needed it I needed it.
52:12.52
Melanie
Those are the things that get me through the day I think and those are the things that that helped me you know shut off at the end of that workday just helped me shut off shut my calendar off shut my computer off. Turn off my you know my Microsoft teams whatever it may be sign out of that. It's just it's hard for me to shut off in general until I feel like I'm productive and until I feel like I've actually you know.
52:39.61
drnobodypodcast
Um.
52:46.11
Melanie
Felt brave enough to put something bad down on paper we do. This is like last like minute thing but we we do get caught up and I don't we get caught up and like wanting to be perfect and it stops us from just.
52:48.83
drnobodypodcast
Now. Okay.
53:05.55
Melanie
Trying So yeah, thought ah.
53:10.45
drnobodypodcast
That's good. No that I mean I I could relate to that when it snows and I'm shoveling I literally need to see no snow in the path. That's how perfect I need to get like you know so I definitely that's why I I snow I snow. I plow first I you know gosh I I Shovel I couldn't think first like I shovel first a little first pass so I could see that I'm making progress which is to your point. That's your draft and then I shovel another layer and another layer until I see the the black top.
53:36.22
Melanie
Yeah, he.
53:44.55
drnobodypodcast
And then I get at it and then I add the the salt to really make sure it's complete and I think that directly translates into making powerpoint or word documents or an email or whatever it is you know, just it just chisel at it now.
53:54.81
Melanie
Yeah, you chipped away at it. You just chipped and you made something really big bite size. Oh my gosh didn me just start this podcast off me distilling big ideas into bite size pieces.
54:07.43
drnobodypodcast
Ah, full circle look at you.
54:13.42
Melanie
Scroll Circle It's like I wrote this? yeah ah.
54:16.53
drnobodypodcast
Ah, she did it well Melanie is there anything else you want to say or bring up I mean that was an amazing insight. So I appreciate that so I guess that could count as your you know, anything else. You want the listeners to know, but any additional things you'd like to say before we.
54:34.24
Melanie
Yeah I think that um, keeping keep the keep doors open be flexible. Um, you know to listeners out there. Whoever decides to follow my career I mean.
54:35.23
drnobodypodcast
We close.
54:53.41
Melanie
I don't know where it's going to take me and I'm okay with that I really am I I would not be surprised if I was doing something completely radical and completely different in a few years but you know where I'm standing right now I have no idea what that could be. Um, I'm just open to possibilities out there and I think that that's what's going to make a well-rounded you know life at the end of the day. So.
55:22.90
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, no agree, totally agree. Um, so I'm gonna ask now if you're okay with the listeners. You know following you on social media or Linkedin is there any 1 particular you want to mention like Linkedin let's keep it professional. Okay.
55:38.90
Melanie
Probably Linkedin. Yeah, yeah.
55:41.92
drnobodypodcast
Ah, so Melanie. Thank you again are the listeners able to follow you on Linkedin or you know send you a message on there or.
55:48.33
Melanie
Yeah, absolutely you can find me at Melanie dash lyce I think it's l y s a g h t and I'm saying I think because I just changed my name. It's official as of maybe four just before thanksgiving.
56:02.40
drnobodypodcast
Yeah, of.
56:08.70
Melanie
2021 yeah just before thanksgiving I got my social security card in the mail. So Brand brands new ah, last name to to to the scal over here actually at the dmv they said that I now have an alias which is very cool.
56:10.53
drnobodypodcast
Oh congratulations.
56:18.12
drnobodypodcast
Yeah.
56:23.82
drnobodypodcast
Sounds fancy. We should have used your alias then all right? Well thank you so much I hope listeners you gain plenty of insights today during our interview. This is just the beginning of becoming someone but specifically the someone you always wanted to be.
56:26.61
Melanie
Um, ah yeah.
56:43.63
drnobodypodcast
Hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did please do give me a like review and subscribe you can also visit the website drnobodypodcast dot com to learn more about my guests like Melanie and listen to the episode again. Thank you again for listening to the Dr. Nobody podcast where we turn nobodies to somebodies. Talk to you all very soon and.